Is Bush right to compare Vietnam to Iraq?
- Thread starter happy_Alex
- Start date
Wait a minute. Bush is making a comparison between the two? Why didn't he make a different comparison before he decided to invade???!!! This is sort of a weird inverse of Dick Cheney saying "Invading Iraq is a bad idea" 7 years before he wanted the invasion.
Gilder
Deity
Because he never went to Vietnam.
CartesianFart
Deity
Is it kinda tiresome to say that whenever a President makes a public speech, it does not necessarily means that it reflects his policy or perception of the world?
A generation shaped by Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam: When America uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal must be clear and the victory must be overwhelming. [Bush address to RNC convention, 8/4/00]
The Republican presidential front-runner also says he learned "the lesson of Vietnam." "Our nation should be slow to engage troops. But when we do so, we must do so with ferocity. We must not go into a conflict unless we go in committed to win. We can never again ask the military to fight a political war," Bush wrote. [AP, 11/15/99, reporting on Bush’s biography A Charge To Keep]
In April 2004, he said:
QUESTION: How do you answer the Vietnam comparison?
BUSH: I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy.
The Republican presidential front-runner also says he learned "the lesson of Vietnam." "Our nation should be slow to engage troops. But when we do so, we must do so with ferocity. We must not go into a conflict unless we go in committed to win. We can never again ask the military to fight a political war," Bush wrote. [AP, 11/15/99, reporting on Bush’s biography A Charge To Keep]
In April 2004, he said:
QUESTION: How do you answer the Vietnam comparison?
BUSH: I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy.
CartesianFart
Deity
I wonder if a war was going on at that time?
I wonder if a war was going on at that time?
Different time and different circumstances?
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Iraq is already like Vietnam!
CartesianFart
Deity
Can you call a Moderator Action: turd , gold?
Moderator Action: Language. I cleaned it up too.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
warpus
In pork I trust
Bush can compare whatever wants, it doesn't really mean anything; the guy couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag, thus any comparison he makes is meaningless.
It doesn't mean anything and it is well-timed; he said it for political reasons, not because it actually has any sort of deeper meaning.
It doesn't mean anything and it is well-timed; he said it for political reasons, not because it actually has any sort of deeper meaning.
Merkinball
Deity
I think Bush's point was to shut up the left, who's been constantly comparing this to Vietnam.
Bush owned souls with that speech.
Jolly Rogers quotes, utterly irrelavent, and probably from Daily Kos.
Bush owned souls with that speech.
Jolly Rogers quotes, utterly irrelavent, and probably from Daily Kos.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Actually, I disagree....the man has argued his case many times before the people...and been elected....twice. I think he is a tad better at it than you give him credit for.
You are accusing a politician of saying something for political reasons? Oh noes...the humanity of it all!
Merkinball
Deity
This isn't a direct comparison to Vietnam. This is a direct comparison to places where we've left, and places where we've bucked popular opinion and "stayed the course," using multiple historical analogies.
How are they irrelevant?
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
"It kills me when I hear of the casualties and the sacrifice that's being made... My contemporaries, our feeling and sensitivities were forged on the battlefields of Vietnam, where we heard the garbage and the lies, and we saw the sacrifice. We swore never again would we allow that to happen. I ask you, Is it happening again?" - General Anthony Zinni - Former central command chief (FIASCO- Thomas E Ricks)
Iam sure you know that Zinni was shot three times in Nam.
A pitty for men like Rumsfield whom purged the military
EDIT:
Let me give you a clue. Those arms you sent to cambodia they were used immediately to start the ethnic cleansing of Vietnames whom the cambodians viewed as invaders. Once that had happened the war in camboida became a genocidel war no matter which way you cut it.
Vietnam was a civil war sponsered by the Soviets, Chinese and the U.S over political dominance in the area.
Iraq was a military intervention and occupation designed to oust Saddam Hussein from power over what the U.S. believed to be a violation of the peace treaty signed after the Gulf War.
Also, the number of casualties in Vietnam far, FAR surpasses those in Iraq. There has not been nearly as much domestic protest against Iraq as there was Vietnam. Today we whine about Iraq in our blogs, on message boards and in the media. People actually went and physically protested Vietnam across the U.S., perhaps mainly because of the draft, but also because of the ridiculous amount of lives lost for a war that hardly anyone supported. Remember, the majority of the U.S. supported the Iraq war in the beginning because we had just been hit with 9/11 and we were told that Iraq was harboring WMDs and supporting terrorists. Bush had a excellent approval rating at this time.
Really, I don't see any comparisons at all other than the fact that we now believe it was an unjustified war. Maybe that is enough? I don't think so though.
Iraq was a military intervention and occupation designed to oust Saddam Hussein from power over what the U.S. believed to be a violation of the peace treaty signed after the Gulf War.
Also, the number of casualties in Vietnam far, FAR surpasses those in Iraq. There has not been nearly as much domestic protest against Iraq as there was Vietnam. Today we whine about Iraq in our blogs, on message boards and in the media. People actually went and physically protested Vietnam across the U.S., perhaps mainly because of the draft, but also because of the ridiculous amount of lives lost for a war that hardly anyone supported. Remember, the majority of the U.S. supported the Iraq war in the beginning because we had just been hit with 9/11 and we were told that Iraq was harboring WMDs and supporting terrorists. Bush had a excellent approval rating at this time.
Really, I don't see any comparisons at all other than the fact that we now believe it was an unjustified war. Maybe that is enough? I don't think so though.
Don't you get it? Anytime you find a Bush quote that runs completely counter to what Bush has done as president, you ignore the quote, declare it irrelevant, or act like it was never said.
I guess you didn't get those talking points?
This is begging for another one of those Bush vs. Bush debates.
CartesianFart
Deity
That is because of the failure to look at the time of the quotes and the circumstances that entails it.
Of course, his response will be, "I don't understand you."
