Is civ5 really slow or is it just me?

[whipflash]

Hey, first i got to say i love CiV but for a city with lots of iron, horses and coal + workshop and i was playing as russia it still takes about 5 - 20turns to build ONE building and most of my citys it takes 10 - 40turns for one building even if i try to max out the prod. wonders also take about 20 - 50turns even in the most productiv citys prety much possible at that time.


The units builds abit slow but its still possible to buy them (for much cheaper when a building i might just add) and its possible to get them out on about 3 - 10turns and this game is not made for unit spam so thats acceptable but still, the buildings and wonder balance sucks i mean.... 300-600hammers needed for a simple wonder even if you play ramses with the wonderbuilding policy its 150 - 300hammers, a city say with 10mines makes 30hammers each turn, but now we forget 1 thing, how is the city gona manage to have food for all these 10mines? i know you can get food from city states but for that you need gold, and in civ5 you have to pick between gold or prod but still to have the prod you got to pay maintence for the buildings and units so you cant even pay the city states.

by makeing tiles only produce 1-4g, 1-4food. 1-4hammers and maximum 6 total stats (unless you have wonders etc in some rare cases) they screwd up the balance in the game, i think its to late to change the production from tiles but its still possible to make the buildings/wonders need less hammers to be finished. BTW playing quick just <removed> up the balance even more.

And yea i know your suposed to specalise your citys, but can anyone claim that a city do not need these buildings as a standard, Monument, coluseum, library? and thats about 60turns building for a standard city and thats just 3 buildings!

Moderator Action: Watch the language, please.

 

[Biz_]

yes the game is slow-paced

you don't have time to make everything you like. that makes it very difficult to play optimally

however, it does add a different kind of strategy (or guesswork). you have to really consider whether the investment will be useful, and the answer is not always obvious

it's also much harder to recover from mistakes

take a common example - choosing between granary and military. in previous civ games you could just make the granary and then slave near the last second when you realized you needed the military. in civ5 if the granary is a bad decision, your conqueror just gets a better city

the game is definitely slower, and your choices have more consequences

it's debatable whether that adds to the strategy or whether it adds to the luck because those consequences aren't foreseeable

 

[Joschka]

The biggest problem with the high production costs of units is the fact that the KI can't bring fresh supply to the front fast enough. For this reason one KI often dominates their neighbours and is slowly conquering everything. The player doesn't have such a problem, because he's using his units smarter and therefore needs a lot less to be successful.

Another problem concerning this imbalance between production and game pace is the fact, that the KI (and to a lesser extent the player as well) is too vulnerable after a war against another KI. If you intervene while the two brawlers are constantly losing units, you can conquer everything without too much trouble. The next balance patch needs to fix this urgently, cut the cost of everything by a rather huge amount (dunno perhaps about 25%, maybe even more). Conquering is too easy right now!

 

[12agnar0k]

Yeah its slower, on marathon I spent 10 hours playing and didn't get past the medieval era, and on my latest game on standard speed, I've played 5 hours and only just got to renissance. Suffice to say, the game is slower than Civ4. Expect to put more hours into a game, or alternatly if you prefer, go with quick speed.

 

[whipflash]

yes the game is slow-paced

you don't have time to make everything you like. that makes it very difficult to play optimally

however, it does add a different kind of strategy (or guesswork). you have to really consider whether the investment will be useful, and the answer is not always obvious

it's also much harder to recover from mistakes

take a common example - choosing between granary and military. in previous civ games you could just make the granary and then slave near the last second when you realized you needed the military. in civ5 if the granary is a bad decision, your conqueror just gets a better city

the game is definitely slower, and your choices have more consequences

it's debatable whether that adds to the strategy or whether it adds to the luck because those consequences aren't foreseeable

Well lets take colusus for example, it makes every sea tile in the city togheter with the lighthouse just like grassland + tradepost. Its a really good wonder lategame but almost useless early game and its possible to take over the city with it and it takes 10 - 20turns to build it, and the same city can build about 3 hipolites (if you greek) and add about 2 archers and you can invade the person who built the colusus.

Grannary converts 1gold and lots of early turns into 2 food, its almost useless unless the city is gona have alot of mines. I figured out early game building early buildings are almost useless which kinda makes this into a wargame unless they make buildings abit easier to build.

 

[whipflash]

Yeah its slower, on marathon I spent 10 hours playing and didn't get past the medieval era, and on my latest game on standard speed, I've played 5 hours and only just got to renissance. Suffice to say, the game is slower than Civ4. Expect to put more hours into a game, or alternatly if you prefer, go with quick speed.

Like i said quick just makes it much worse, no balance at all compared to tech and building build time and unit build time.

 

[Czacki]

Granary is pretty useless imho, I just don't build it.

The game is all about war. Instead of building buildings that take ages to complete, build units and conquer your neighbor. it's like Civ1, in a way. Forget the buildings, set tech level to 0% and pump knights after chivalry - that was civ 1 path.

Wonders take ages to finish and offer little in return. Plus, you can always take them off somebody. I'd rather have a few units instead. The game isn't about massing units but that just makes a few units so stupidly powerful in comparison to building.

 

[Biz_]

Well lets take colusus for example, it makes every sea tile in the city togheter with the lighthouse just like grassland + tradepost. Its a really good wonder lategame but almost useless early game and its possible to take over the city with it and it takes 10 - 20turns to build it, and the same city can build about 3 hipolites (if you greek) and add about 2 archers and you can invade the person who built the colusus.

Grannary converts 1gold and lots of early turns into 2 food, its almost useless unless the city is gona have alot of mines. I figured out early game building early buildings are almost useless which kinda makes this into a wargame unless they make buildings abit easier to build.

well take the example of making a barracks and armory. could be useful. could be too slow. both to help the war game.

it's like finishing the wonder might give them the signal to start sending units toward you. you have that travel time to make some defenses.

it's how people always succeed at making ancient age wonders with no military. yes a warrior/archer rush will kill them, but only if the rusher knows who to attack

 

[Schuesseled]

the productions levels is akin to that of civ 4 in marathon in civ5's standard, and you wanna know why?, its so that purchasing stuff is viable option, often in civ 4, i would stop bothering rushing stuff, as my production got so high.

 

[Dark_MadMax]

It kinda slower but on the other hand you dont need as many units as you did in other civs . You could conquer whole map with 5-7 units and you dont even need to produce them , just keep upgrading your ancient era ones all the way to mech infantry. AI is pretty dumb so all you need to conquer cities is 1 siege unit , 2 strong melees and 2 ranged to defeat pretty much anything he will ever throw at you. Plus a few ships maybe and scouts.

 

[dodgerphreak]

I don't know if slower in the terms of this thread is what I mean, but I think a game of Civ 5 just takes longer than a game of Civ 4 used to. In Civ 4, I used to be able to play a full game, normal speed in 2-3 days. I've had this game for 4 days now, and I haven't even reached 300 turns in my first game and thats through about 20 hours(according to Steam).

It just seems that a game of Civ 5 takes longer than what I'm used to.

 

[skallben]

The biggest problem with the high production costs of units is the fact that the KI can't bring fresh supply to the front fast enough. For this reason one KI often dominates their neighbours and is slowly conquering everything. The player doesn't have such a problem, because he's using his units smarter and therefore needs a lot less to be successful.

Another problem concerning this imbalance between production and game pace is the fact, that the KI (and to a lesser extent the player as well) is too vulnerable after a war against another KI. If you intervene while the two brawlers are constantly losing units, you can conquer everything without too much trouble. The next balance patch needs to fix this urgently, cut the cost of everything by a rather huge amount (dunno perhaps about 25%, maybe even more). Conquering is too easy right now!

What does KI stand for?

 

[whipflash]

the productions levels is akin to that of civ 4 in marathon in civ5's standard, and you wanna know why?, its so that purchasing stuff is viable option, often in civ 4, i would stop bothering rushing stuff, as my production got so high.

Well on king on a standard map with a empire i had that was about 25citys big (yes i fighted ALOT to get my happiness up), every city i had built wonders/buildings just to make money so i could pay my army and the happiness buildings. The entire endgame i spent on waiting 50turns for wonders to finish.

I made about 140g each turn and 1 coluseum costs 660g, how can that be viable option? For a huge empire that focus on money it would take 4turns just to get 1 colosuem in 1 city and you cant even buy courthouse, in a city that had size 14 and about 20hammers it was 10turns just to build the courthouse.

I really try to enjoy the game as i did in civ3/4/5 but building workshop is useless, buildings forge is useless barackas are ok but they still cost money, And money is very hard to make now cause if you want 1 city to farm gold and for that you kinda need a marketplace and a bank, but thats like the ENTIRE GAME just for that city to finish 2 buildings.

And the workshop gives 3hammers.... THREE HAMMERS in exchange for a great person, At first i was like "well my city only got 23hammers so sure lets try this guy out", guees what it dident help at all...

I see no option but war but you cant even take over the world cause happiness will ruin it for you so you will need to build happiness buildings, but at that point you need money so you build money buildings and now japan decided to invade you and your army is on the otherside of the map and you have no army cause you had to build buildings to fix that -50happiness after takeingover 4 countrys. Its like the only option is a small country or you lose cause of building buildings and wonders. (and by wonders i mean forbiden palace, machu pichu, pyramids and by buildings i mean, grannary in a miningtown, marketplace and bank in a tradepost town, mint in city with gold/silver, coloseum, theater, monument, temple. you know stuff that you need to even survive)

 

[whipflash]

I don't know if slower in the terms of this thread is what I mean, but I think a game of Civ 5 just takes longer than a game of Civ 4 used to. In Civ 4, I used to be able to play a full game, normal speed in 2-3 days. I've had this game for 4 days now, and I haven't even reached 300 turns in my first game and thats through about 20 hours(according to Steam).

It just seems that a game of Civ 5 takes longer than what I'm used to.

I mean slower in your way to, i played a game yesterday and i gave up around 280turns cause i dident see a victory comeing anytime soon. Its just slooow the only aspect so far thats holding the game togheter is the combat system, should have ben rock paper siccors in civ4 but its prety ok anyways.

 

[mirkwooduk]

I just finished a game on prince up against BUsmark he kept throwing pikemen at me but then suddenly he upgraded to riflemen I had the same and had been holding him off in a narrow neck between mtns and the sea when he firstly wheeled up artillery and blasted me away then he sneaked his by boats around a headland and bypassed the pass and took my capital

I know I am not great at this game though walloped the AI on the easy setting in my next game just to see if I could

I have enjoyed it so far and for my level of expertise it's fun

 

[mirkwooduk]

I just finished a game on prince up against BUsmark he kept throwing pikemen at me but then suddenly he upgraded to riflemen I had the same and had been holding him off in a narrow neck between mtns and the sea when he firstly wheeled up artillery and blasted me away then he sneaked his by boats around a headland and bypassed the pass and took my capital

I know I am not great at this game though walloped the AI on the easy setting in my next game just to see if I could

I have enjoyed it so far and for my level of expertise it's fun

 

[Tetsuru]

well take the example of making a barracks and armory. could be useful. could be too slow. both to help the war game.

it's like finishing the wonder might give them the signal to start sending units toward you. you have that travel time to make some defenses.

it's how people always succeed at making ancient age wonders with no military. yes a warrior/archer rush will kill them, but only if the rusher knows who to attack

I purchased my barracks and armory with the gold I looted from destroying my enemies. It was instantaneous. The warmonger rules this game.

 

[whipflash]

I purchased my barracks and armory with the gold I looted from destroying my enemies. It was instantaneous. The warmonger rules this game.

Its so sad... they make combat alot more fun and now a diplomatic game is impossible on noble or above, try tradeing gandhi for oil on immortal.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

I purchased my barracks and armory with the gold I looted from destroying my enemies. It was instantaneous. The warmonger rules this game.

Interesting - starting from Civ 3 ( and especially in Civ 4 ) this was intended to be removed/reduced as favored strategy ...

Or at least to make it more about "getting civilised" than ( mostly ) warmongering.

 

[Auncien]

<3 <3 <3 the pace of this game. It's perfect.