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Is Civilization forever dead?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by jjkrause84, May 12, 2016.

  1. cseanny

    cseanny Emperor

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    Some of my favorite games are Might and Magic II (played that in HS in late 80's!), Civ 4, Starcraft 2 Lotv; easily the best Starcraft game ever made (and I've been playing since 1998), Offworld Trading Company (yay Soren!), and a multiple of FPS on PS4. Having said that I never cared for Civ 5.

    The best way I can describe my Civ 5 experience would be something like this - Who has seen the Last Airbender cartoons? Quite the entertaining series imo. Now who has seen the Last Airbender movie? That has got to be one of the worst Movies I have ever seen. Where Civ 4 absolutely nailed it Civ 5, at least for me, was a HUGE flop.

    I'm leaning towards No for Civ 6 because it seems there are too many similiarities to 5, however, I could be wrong. Time will tell.
     
  2. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

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    All of you are heretics and fakers of the Civilization series!

    CIV 3 was when Civilization died! Everything was perfect in Civ 2 but you all ruined it!
     
  3. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Civ V is no where near as complicated and rich as Civ IV, especially not in its Beyond the Sword incarnation.

    I'm with the OP, the Civilization series died when Civ V was released. Nothing could save Civ V, because 1 UPT forced design changes that limited city growth and unit build rate and then those decisions permeate throughout all of Civ 5's subsystems. Forcing combat to be tactical while trying to keep everything else strategic didn't work.

    Now, Civ VI is trying to make city building tactical too with its district system. This is just another attempt to give 1 UPT or its Support/Corps variant enough space to lay seige to a now multiple tile city. This will probably work even less well in Civ VI than in Civ V. All it does is make the 1 UPT chioce work with cities apparently better in Civ VI than in Civ V, but all they are really doing is making more of a strategic game tactical in nature just to try making 1 UPT or its Support/Corps variant work.
     
  4. Sparth

    Sparth C2C Team Member

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    I don't know why people compare Civ4/BTS with Civ5/BNW when you have tons of interesting mods to 4? Even with best mods and BNW CiV is quite simple and boring game.

    Dunno maybe players don't know how to install mods for CIV?
    There is tons of excellent mods for CIV naming only Realism Invictus, Rise of Mankind, Pie's Ancient Europe, Total War, Dune, Fall from Heaven 2, Conflict on Chiron, C2C, Rhye's and Fall, Final Frontier+ and a lots more.
     
  5. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Sorry I don't play civ for mods. Actually th only mods I would look at are AI patches and added tool tips and charts.

    It does sound like civ6 will have a stronger mod focus via workshop so I may look into it.
     
  6. ldvhl

    ldvhl ніщо

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    I'll just stop you right there. Different people have different preferences. It's not that unusual or shocking. Why do people have trouble with such a simple concept?
     
  7. Sparth

    Sparth C2C Team Member

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    But why not to try? Mods are free and all you need to spend few minutes to download them and install. Its not hocus-pocus.
     
  8. ldvhl

    ldvhl ніщо

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    Because some people prefer V over IV. It's personal preference. Your opinions are not objective truth.
     
  9. Kilroy Was Here

    Kilroy Was Here Chieftain

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    Man, six years later and people are STILL upset Civ 5 wasn't a direct copy and paste of Civ 4? Jeez.
     
  10. Sync

    Sync Warlord

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    To be fair, I'm still upset that Shafer 5 was advertised as being the 'most moddable Civ ever' and then turned out to be nowhere near as moddable as Civ 4.
     
  11. isau

    isau Deity

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    The only seriously negative thing I can say about Civ 5 is it needed 2 or 3 more balance patches to bring the ideas from the final (mostly excellent) expansion pack to fruition. Mods can do that to an extent, but the creators really needed to do more than a single patch to see where the metagame was going and address it.

    I don't really understand what people mean about with Civ 4 being "more moddable" than Civ 5. Civ 5 lets you mod individual traits easily. This is an enormous pain in Civ 4 which is old school and requires manual merging of XML. Civ 4 maybe makes it easier to do single, grand-style conversion mods, but Civ 5 is better at letting you tweak the game to your specific tastes.
     
  12. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 King

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    Mods are fanfiction....they always go way too far and wind up in absurdity.

    I always prefer the main game; the way it was 'meant' to be played.
     
  13. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 King

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    Btw I tried playing Civ 5 BNW recently to see if maybe I was being harsh. Nope. I'm playing on King, it is 1600 CE or so and I've never been under nay threat whatsoever. No one has declared war on anyone else, I'm miles ahead in tech, culture and religion, and have never felt like any decision I've made has been make or break. The game is just on rails. In Civ 4 I feel under pressure from turn 1...there's always stuff I have to do, and have to do NOW.

    There are some interesting ideas sprinkled throughout Civ 5, I'll give it that....but they don't come anywhere near to making up for the huge structural concepts that were ripped out. No map or tech trading makes diplomacy a lot less interesting (fewer choices). Food resources are all but worthless (working cows gives me +1 hammer....and that's it!? I get the same amount of food even if I don't work the tile!?). In fact, unworked tiles are so good and worked tiles provide such modest benefits that you can comfortably not work tiles for centuries and still be fine. Having no control over your budget means all you do is watch your money increase every turn...no decisions to make, ever. You are actively dissuaded from expansion so you build your 3-4 cities and just sit there building for 300-400 turns. Having units 'transform' into transport ships severely dumbs down the naval game. I could go on.....

    Now you may jump up and down and say 'play on a harder difficulty level!'. Well, I've played at Emperor and found the experience to be identical. 'Emperor' level in Civ should be brutally difficult, not so easy I forget that I'm actually playing anything. There is no dynamism, no constantly changing geopolitics to respond to, little to no threat of invasion, absolutely no incentive to invade anyone else....no incentive to actually go one playing the game.

    This is what I mean by "if Civ 6 is just like Civ 5 then Civ is, in fact, dead".
     
  14. Sauron 3

    Sauron 3 Chieftain

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    Nice theme in accordance with the last news
     
  15. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Civilization, with Steam's advertising and the huge influx of new players with Civilization IV, isn't dead.

    But Civilization, the game we've played until and including Civilization IV, is dead, yes.
     
  16. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Wow, I'm shocked, really. Like I said, the entire time Civ5 was being expanded upon I stuck with Civ4 and I believed everyone who said 4 was deeper and more complex. I didn't start playing 5 until many months after BNW. Now that I've clocked in over 1000 hours in 5, after having spent double that time on 4, I say you people are dead wrong. 5 is just as complex and involves just as much strategy as 4. Also, saying that 5 is easy because you can beat it on King without a sweat means nothing. Civ4 on King was so easy I could beat it in my sleep. It's always been the case that you either need to play on Diety, or you need serious AI mods to make the game a challenge once you've played 100's of hours. In Civ4 it was Kmod that made the AI good, and in Civ5 it is Acken's mod. You really need those mods to enjoy the games as an experienced player.
     
  17. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Which is funny because Civilisation 1 (and to an extent, 2) are completely different games from 3 onwards, in how they played out.
     
  18. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 King

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    To put my King playthrough in perspective: I am not a min-maxer, I've never tried nor had any desire to play on Deity or the higher difficulty levels, and Prince on Civ 4 is still a real challenge for me (I probably only win 50% of the time, and maybe less). For Civ 5 to be this easy on King and Emperor means something.

    Maybe for people who like to game the system and enjoy pushing rule-sets to their limits Civ 5 is more deep. I find that unlikely, but maybe it's possible.
     
  19. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    When will you old timers let go ? CIV 3 was near perfect, 4 was the beginning of the end!


    Would love for them to have a game they enjoy, but at this point I really do hope its dead for them so we can have a piss free parade.
     
  20. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    I believe it is time to re-iterate the Golden Rules of Civ:

    Only the even numbered Civs are worth playing.

    Only the odd numbered Civs are worth playing.


    Just pick which one is yours and go away.
     

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