Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Smartbluma, Feb 4, 2009.
Snacks are good in moderation!
Yes, the USA is a Representative Democracy. I don't see your point? How is this an error in the flavor/background text in the Civopedia?
Hey all, just joined but I've been a civ fan for a long time, about 9 years now and have been reading this forum. You guys have def helped me become better.
I joined to say a few thigns along this topic.
I think Civ is educational and very beneficial in many ways.
I learned and started playing Civ2 after watching my dad play it. He taught the basic nuances and helped me learn the fundamentals. I have my own style, which is very different than his. He's more peaceful than I. Anyways, it helped us to bond while I was growing up. I started playing around age hmm 10-12. I'm 21 now ha, so 9 years for me is a long time. But just talking about different strategies and games. Going in depth about wars and the BS that happened . We would compare games and see who could get a higher score and beat it on a harder level and such. It was a great time and times I'll always hold cherish. So honestly, if any of your kids are interested in this game definitely take the time with them and help them! I will always hold and connect civilization to my dad. When he passes, I'll have this game to remember him by.
As for educational, for sure it is. Especially in earlier history classes. I already knew who and what Magellan did. Who and waht Nicolas Copernicus did and various other guys and wonders. Also, learning different civs leaders and cities was helpful as well. Of course, as you move on in schooling it's not as basic but a good foundation.
It's also helpful because it teaches strategy and analytical thought processes. You have to plan out moves many turns in advance. You have to plan and that's a great thing to learn. You learn from mistakes and try new things. Civ has become extremely in depth, and although it's not perfect it's the best/hardest strategy game I've ever played. I'd say it's had a direct role in my thinking in situations, and problem solving.
So yes, this game is educational and can be a bonding tool. Many of my friends find it to be completely nerdy but they are also intrigued by it.
I think it is! Just now I was talking to a guy who is expert on the middle ages, mongols, trebuchets and things like that, and was able to convince him that I know about these things too, just by throwing in some facts I've learned by playing this game.
Welcome to the Forums Sic Transit Zeb.
I taught my son and daughter Civ II when they were about 11 & 9 years old.
They still enjoy the game.
That's awesome man.
Yeah, I never played Civ3. I stopped playing at Call To Power, and just a few years ago picked up civ4/warlords and I've been hooked since. This game is so in depth that I have to take some breaks, a couple weeks or so but it's a fun time.
Right now I'm struggling on my monarch game. I'm about 4th outta 11 but close to the 3rd guy. Planning on just defending the borders and teching until the spaceship. Luckily for me, the #1 and #2 guys are on my island and we're friendly.
Anyone else play poker and see the countless amounts of similarities between the two games? Starcraft/warcraft are other games that have been related to poker. This game has definitely made some positive adjustments to my poker game.
Hey I listened to Punic Nightmares. T'was awesome.
I think it is extremely educational especially for youngsters. I believe that a person is able to learn better if he/she is presented with the same information in multiple forms and a game such as this is a different form. Plus learning should be fun and some people just don't like to read much. ...also even ignoring all the information contained in the game, it teaches you how to think in a certain manner. It exercises the brain and that's more important than remembering information. Finally, it presents information in a fun manner and invites people to learn more about history and other subjects. Games can be a stepping stone to higher learning especially for younger people.
The only issue I'd have with teaching a youngling about Civ IV and using it an educational tool is the ethical dilemma of telling them that naked aggression, ethnic cleansing and slavery is bad on one hand, then one the other teaching them to how and why to choke, rush, raze and abuse the whip.
Then again real history isn't a sequence of examples of virtue and random acts of senseless kindness, either. So maybe BtS is the perfect edutainment.
I agree with that the pedia, while being somehwhat educational (nice for learning background info on some of the more obscure cultures, Mali, Korea any one?) it also gives you incentinve to learn about history and a decent grasp of the flow of history. Educational, not exactly. Better for you than playing Gears of War or Halo? (Not bashing those games, both are fun for a while) most likely. Better for you than being a WoW fanboy and learning nothing? Absolutly.
Of course there is education value... There is the history, well, for me not that educational, I know most of it, but I still like it that it teaches people about ancient wonders and civilizations.
However, the strategy part is VERY educational. Balancing hammers/food, balancing economy (hammers/research), trying to find the way to play that "makes sense", while still being able to adapt to the situation.
Actually, it helps me 1:1 getting better at my job. I play poker for a living, and a lot of the linebalancing, maximizing economic output etc. is pretty much the same. In MP civ there is also a lot of metagaming involved, and this is also important in poker.
Now obviously, I understand my "job" is quite unusual, however, it would help any person that has economic or otherwise strategic/metastrategic ambition.
Civ4 is educational? No doubt.
Is civ IV educational?
Consider this: every noob, who didn't consult this website (or some other strategy guide, like me) has probably encountered this scenario when they first start playing:
A appears in one of your cities, you examine the city, it says "We're too crowded"
Logically you think you need to build cottages, and yet the problem persists.
So Civ IV taught me that building homes is not a way to solve overcrowding problems. That is a testament to its educational value.
I remember what I've learned in my Civ games. I can't say the same for every printed textbook on history.
Also, I've gotten to be exceptionally good at resource management and balancing the long term gain/short term sacrifice dilemma through playing the Civ series. I also like to play other games with friends and they have commented several times that it's kind of scary to watch me pick up a new strategy board/card game and play it as if I had owned and played the game for weeks instead of minutes. I know that is not an education that our school system would value, but it's still an education.
I know people who have an unbelievable knowledge of sports facts and who are able to predict the outcome of sports games in a way that I can't even fathom. That's another kind of education. It's not an education that I'm interested in, but if everyone had the same education, then we'd be a pretty poor society. I like the fact that each of my neighbors knows things that I don't know.
Civ IV (and the others in the Civ series as well) is certainly educational. Just don't expect to see your SAT score jump too much after playing it. It's not that kind of education.
I like that.
I do think that cottages represent a kind of cottage industry rather than small homes, though. Improved tiles are places where people go to work, not where they go at the end of the day. If people are working in cottages/villages/etc, that's just entrepreneurial small business owners with tiny 2-20 employee startups like restaurants, vending machine companies, small family practices, etc.
Also, building homes is not a way to solve overcrowding problems. If you keep building homes, then people will probably start to live in them and you'll end up with even more crowding! More people = more crowded.
The hundreds of hours spend playing Civ could have been spent reading books on history and science.
So true, I would second those who've spent so much time on Civ that ... well, Civ is educational in the sense it teaches one not to overdo the &(*^ game!
The hundreds of hours spent reading books on history or science could have been spent visiting historical sites, or conducting scientific experiments. My point being that no one can definitively say how much practical knowledge would be retained from any of these exercises. Some people might very well learn more from Civving than from reading.
Just about every activity has an opportunity cost. If, instead of playing Civ, you'd lie on the couch watching Oprah or playing Call of Duty... Civ starts to look pretty good.
It does encourage a lot of critical thinking, pretty much always. You can't get so good at this game that you can just go on auto-pilot, a situation will come up where you have to exercise critical thinking. At least that's my experience. That has some educational value, but you will get diminishing returns as far as education is concerned with any video game. The initial learning process does stimulate the brain and make it work better, but once you learn how the game works, you don't get as much out of it.
I would defiantly not say it’s educational in the sense that you learn about history from playing it. But I think playing it has helped me remember facts that I have learned elsewhere (like on the History Channel - J/K). For one thing it increases my interest in a broader range of eras and cultures. So when I came across Mali and Ethiopia in my African History class I was far more motivated than I would have been if I hadn't lost most of my fleet to the Ethiopian Navy or been in a close race with Mali to settle Alpha Centauri in the past.
One thing it is very good at teaching, more so than other strategy games, is that every choice in politics and economics has costs. Normally it’s the kind of thing you learn in economics classes but almost nobody takes those anymore. You want a library – great, choosing to build it means you have to give up lots of other choices however.
So is Civ educational - maybe not so much, but does it make us better people – I say unequivocally yes!
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