Is CIVIV biased against China?

[devilhunterred]

I'm quite upset about how they changed Mao and Qing's traits to both Protective in the expansions. Qing being Protective, that I can understand, but Mao, Protective?

Explain the China-Indian war to me. Explain China supplying arms to NVA during the Vietnam War. Explain China sending armies in the Korean War.

With the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution, Mao would be more accurately protraited with Philosophical and Charismatic.

Second, all the superpowers in the game have 3 leaders, America has 3, England (a former superpower) has 3, Russia (a former superpower but an existing great power) has 3, China is certainly an emerging superpower and it only has 2 leaders despite the fact that there are Kangxi and Deng Xiaoping.

Kangxi is one of the longest ruling emperor ever in civilization history, 61 years, and is widely considered as one of the greatest rulers ever alongside with Peter the Great and Louis XIV.

Deng Xiaoping, sure he's flawed with the Tiananmen Massacre, but his contributions of paving the way for China to become a superpower with the 70s Open Door policies and Chinese modernization cannot be denied.

Yet China in CIVIV only has 2 leaders, not to mention they both have the common Protective trait which further undermines Chinese CIV's effectiveness and variety.

 

[Dida]

Give me a break, Kangxi was not even a Chinese, and Mao should be happy that he is even in the game. He was a pathetic murderer who put his country through almost 3 decades of famine and terror. Mao is charismatic for sure, but he knew nothing of philosophy. I should remind you that philosophical gives +100% great person birth rate in civ, and any nation ruled by Mao should consider itself lucky if it suffers anything less than -100% birth rate. Based on Mao's isolationist tendency, protective is right, so maybe he should be protective & charismatic, which would be weird combination.

Qin Shi Huang on the other hand was a great ruler who for the first time ever forged an unified China that lasted 2000 years. He should be industrial for the many monuments that he commissioned and should be organized for effectively setting up a bureaucratic system that stood the test of time.

All Asian rulers seemed to have protective trait, which is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Ramesses]

All Asian rulers seemed to have protective trait, which is kind of ridiculous.

Maybe it had something to do with the legacy of the very Aggressive Genghis Khan?

 

[Joecoolyo]

All Asian rulers seemed to have protective trait, which is kind of ridiculous.

Gandhi
Asoka
Suryavarman II
Genghis Khan
Kublai Khan
Cyrus
Darius I
Hammurabi

All these Asian leaders don't have the protective trait.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

China had a lot of good leaders that should have made it in over Mao.

However, the game is not biased against China. If anything, it is (understandably given where it sells most) biased FAVORABLY to the United States. Note that in vanilla, Qin had a great trait combo.

Nevertheless, BTS China is still solid. They have the 2 best starting techs in the game, a somewhat useful UU, and a useful UB. They play out as a civ well. I don't understand the complaints really ---> China is preferable to many civs in this game despite the PRO trait.

 

[Iranon]

There is nothing wrong with Protective if you have such a dominating and relatively early UU that benefits from it... especially not if it gets built in huge numbers as it does a good job as suicide attacker, cleanup unit and defender.

Admittedly I've taken a shine to Guerilla-promoted CKNs recently so I value the trait slightly less than I used to... but 2 free promotions on a unit that will be my mainstay for millenia is still good.

 

[assass1n]

Now that you bring the India-China war it shows that how well Mao is coded in the XMLs
Hes just a backstabber

 

[phoenix_sprite]

Lol.

Every civ should have a minimum of 2 leaders.

Plus Cho-Ku-Nos are IMBA with Pro and their collateral damage.

 

[IgorS]

Second, all the superpowers in the game have 3 leaders, America has 3, England (a former superpower) has 3, Russia (a former superpower but an existing great power) has 3, China is certainly an emerging superpower and it only has 2 leaders despite the fact that there are Kangxi and Deng Xiaoping.

Go to the downloads section and you'll find out that China also has three leaders. Taizong is also in the game. The thing is that he is available only in the Chinese version of the game. To download Taizong go to the downloads section.

 

[devilhunterred]

LOL I laughed at your statement about cities suffering -100% great person birth rate under mao's rule, because its quite true however despite this mao is definitely philosophical, he published trcukloads of books on his philosophical literature and political ideas, regardless if you agree with his controversial philosophies or not. philsophical and charismatic would make a preculiar combo, but mao IS a preculiar leader in actuality. Loved by his people for repeling against the corrupted GMD and japanese invaders and founding the modern chinese state, yet also hated by many for his hundred flowers, great leap forward and cultural revolution.

i just really miss qing's financial trait, especially seeing how gold plays a much more significant role in BTS than in vanilla. Protective trait would definitely be nice on the chokonu, but i can easily have two free promotions with barracks, theocracy and vasslage, which are two of my fave earlier civics anyways. plus the fact that the protective trait would have lil value when im invading neighbors, something i tend to do quite frequently.

ah taizong, father of the glorious tang dynasty for ancient china. how did i forget about him, thanks IgorS, i will definitely check him out, but i wonder what his traits are.

 

[devilhunterred]

i searched up the forum and download section quite a bit, to my knowledge the BTS version released in china actually has 3 leaders, the extra one Tang Taizong, mao's philosophical trait has changed to protective, but qin's financial trait remains intact.

firaxis what's with this dirty marketing?

 

[IgorS]

ah taizong, father of the glorious tang dynasty for ancient china. how did i forget about him, thanks IgorS, i will definitely check him out, but i wonder what his traits are.

Well, since you need to install it yourself (has no XML with it) you can give him whatever traits you want.