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Is current population relevant? The n-city, 1-population per city Empire.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Alchemy101, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. Alchemy101

    Alchemy101 Chieftain

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    Is current population relevant? The n-city, 1-population per city Empire. Okay, perhaps a bit of stretch but hear me out.

    The yield of a city comes from a mixture of the following…

    1. Worked tiles. This require a “current” population point to work the tile.

    2. Districts. Either inherently, due to adjacency, or from contained buildings. Although districts can be worked like a tile, their major value comes from the buildings they contain. These building do not require any population in order to be worked. However, the number of districts that a city may build it “gated” according to the following, (n-1)/3+1. Meaning at population 1 the city may build one districts, at 4 two districts, etc.
    Note: It is claimed that “n” is not current population but the highest historical population that the city has had. I have been unable to confirm this but it would imply that a city that was once at population 10 would still be able to build three districts even if its current population fell below 10. Has anyone been able to confirm this?​

    3. Trade routes. Dependent upon, primarily, the number of commercial and harbor districts. Additional sources include governments, wonders, city-states, etc. These therefore do not require current population to produce their yields.

    4. Wonders. Many wonders produce a small yield. These do not require current population but do require a tile for them to be placed.

    5. City-states. These primarily augment the city center or districts, which again do not require current population.

    6. Other sources? Most minor.​

    If the majority of a city’s yields comes from its district’s buildings, why is current population even relevant (other than the “gates” to build the next district)? I have been too busy to experiment with the following suggestion but it came to be after a recent game where I founded a city in a rather food poor location and supported it with trade routes.

    Suggestion:
    Spam cities initially supported by trade routes to a targeted growth level then move the trade routes to the next spammed city.

    Once you have a core set of cities…
    A. Build your settler and found a city on ANY available tile. Its total yield from base tiles is irrelevant.

    B. Divert a few trade routes to the new city. This should generate enough food and production to get the ball rolling. Add more trade routes as needed or are available.

    C. Build housing only as needed to get you through the gates for the desired total number of districts you want to build.

    D. Build the desired districts, prioritizing industrial and commercial, then what ever you want.

    E. Discontinue the trade routes. They can be diverted to the next new city, return to Step A. Even if you have not fully built the 3+ districts you want, if you reached the needed gate you should still be able to build them.​

    The total current population for the city will likely decline, especially if it was founded in an area with poor yields (e.g. desert/tundra). But even if the city declines to 1 population you still have the lion’s share of its yields as well as +1 trade routes (i.e. re-deployable food and production) assuming your build a commercial district. Additionally, this city will not require any amenities to maintain (assuming population 1). In fact, you will likely get a bonus since the amenity supply will exceed the demand (i.e. Happy Status, +1 amenities, +5%).​

    With this process, you can found an infinite number of cities in any location so long as it can form a trade link back to your “established” empire.

    What am I missing?
     
  2. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

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    I think the basic idea that small cities with weak tiles can still be good is sound, but 1 pop seems extreme :p You should be able to find at least a couple decent tiles for any city. It's a very significant opportunity cost to pull that many caravan hammers off core cities and also spend the hammers on the settler (costs of settlers also scale with settlers built I believe) just to get district output.

    Would definitely be interesting to see a game that really ran with this idea though.
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    This sounds good in theory, but I think would hit some snags in practice. For starters, you still need to spend the production to build your districts and army, and you still need to be able to defend your consistent city spam. Your core cities will have less food and production this way, though you can get around that if you keep them at the housing cap. The biggest issue would be defending your empire, which might be easy enough against the AI, but might be harder in multiplayer or with better AI.

    Your late founded cities will take absolutely forever to build their districts too, so this probably only works until a certain point in the game. Still, I'm curious if you figure out how to make it work.
     
  4. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    It works. I've done it. The main limitation is that you need a significant number of your Routes to prop the city until it builds all the districts and claims all the tiles you want. After that, you move on, but you're talking a new city like every 20 turns or so on Standard. It's hardly all that.
     
  5. Alchemy101

    Alchemy101 Chieftain

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    In the Rome game, the sparked the idea, I settled in the desert adjacent to an oasis in a high production area but low food. I thought I would simply support it with trade routes. My core cites were safe behind a mountain range requiring minimal defense and there was a large unclaimed desert between me and my neighbors. I was running low on space and figured I'd give it a try. With minimal effort, the city population exploded and production as very high.

    I did not miss the two or three of the 18-ish trade routes I had up and had no issues getting things one line.

    I agree but I simply wanted to examine the "worst case" senarior. If you can manage a few population but still have postative amenties all the better.​

    I would disagree... to a extent. The 50% reduction with the policy and it was only my 7th-ish settler. All future settlers/trade routes would spawn from this new city (in theory). The regional effect of factories will likely very quickly repay the cost.
    Valid points. I do not play multiplayer but I do hope the AI gets better to force me defend my holdings more.​
     
  6. dwarfling

    dwarfling Chieftain

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    I generally don't put more than 1 route on these "trash" cities. They might take a long time to get going, but I've never been on a hurry: these cities aren't really slowing the whole empire down. At most that crappy city surrounded by tundra (but grabbing some resources) will grow to pop 4 and leech 1 amenity from some other city. But otherwise they're independant entities, eggs that will hatch later into future trade routes.
     
  7. Alchemy101

    Alchemy101 Chieftain

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    Early experimentation is not too good. The results fall into two categories: Failed and Irrelevant. I think because I was attempting to employ this strategy I was over zealous and expanded too quickly sacrificing core city development. Alternatively, once my core cities where established I was already winning and the added cities were more for amusement.
     
  8. ZHONN

    ZHONN Chieftain

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    Absolutely the way to go in my experience. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Naturally there comes a time near the end when it's not beneficial anymore but until that; settle, settle and settle.

    Coincidentally, this is one of the things I love in the new Civ. I hated the way CiV was optimized for four cities. now I get to have an empire again.
     
  9. Gyromancer

    Gyromancer Chieftain

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    If you don't care about working the squares, harvesting and chopping everything is suddenly MUCH more attractive. I've been seriously considering pushing this strategy harder since my last game. I was running Rome under ICS when I settled my southern tundra coast and worked up a fairly productive dense pack of small cities with a combination of trade routes and interlocking factory and power plant bonuses. Noticed that chopping / harvesting and some gold rushing of buildings really got this up and running fast. (Spoiler alert - Legions can Chop!)

    Seems like a small core of large cities (for wonder production, and the target of all those trade routes you are making) and a large set of small cities, literally settled on any available solid surface, is a wining strategy.

    Couple this strategy with a civ that gets a special district (which doesn't count against the limit) and you could end up with some sick results.

    For example:

    Germany - size 1 cities with Commercial and Industrial districts, Size 4 with Harbors (on coast) or Encampments (Carthage!!!)
    England - Size 4 coastal cities with Commercial, Industrial, Harbor
    Greece - Size 4 cities with Commercial, Industrial, Theater
     
  10. ZHONN

    ZHONN Chieftain

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    If we're talking purely of crappy cities in the middle of nowhere, one doesn't necessarily need the industrial district, as there is no meaningful adjacency boni. Population can be artificially inflated to get districts, and put down with districts in place, and have no amenities lost. Trade routes are always good, but I wouldn't turn away from campii or theatres either, especially if there's an overabundance of faith and the ability to buy buildings in them so the deliberately low production doesn't hurt either.
     
  11. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    yeah that's the ICS thing alright. Which I think doesn't work if you're doing a science victory unless you're using the overflow gimmick thing
     
  12. ZHONN

    ZHONN Chieftain

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    Why wouldn't it work for a science victory?

    Science requires a certain amount of research, production and preferably GPP. The more cities and districts you have, the more you have research, production through trade routes and GPP through districts.

    There comes a time when it may be necessary to divert every trade route to the spaceport city, but until that, it's quite feasible to bring new cities into action.
     
  13. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    yeah, ICS is great for science victory. More districts = more great engineers & scientists, and more production to build space projects.

    if you focus on science at the expense of production, you'll reach the end of the tech tree with no problem but it will take forever to build your victory stuff.
     
  14. Nefelia

    Nefelia Prince

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    Pumping out Settlers gets rather expensive after a while. In my current game (Giant Earth Map), my next Settler will cost 480 cogs (Epic speed). That is four times the cost of the initial Settler on Epic speed.
     
  15. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    you kind of need a big city to crank out the silly amount of production space projects need unless you burn the great people on it
     
  16. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    well ICS does help get those great people too.
     

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