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Is Donald Trump Done for?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Archbob, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    FWIW Lawfare had an excellent series of articles on "sanctuary cities" and applicable Federal statutes.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/sanctua...e-order-doesnt-do-cannot-do-and-has-little-do
    The tl;dr version is that the federal government has made it very clear that immigration is a federal responsibility and that non-federal law enforcement are not to take independent action on their own with regards to enforcing immigration law. The level of cooperation the feds can demand from non-federal law enforcement turns very quickly into a mess of qualifiers and uncertainties due to anti-commandeering statutes. If non-federal law enforcement collects information on an individuals immigration status, they are obliged to report that to the feds if the feds ask but the feds cannot ask non-federal law enforcement to ask those questions.
    (Apologies if I got anything wrong from the articles. I'm not a lawyer, they are relatively dense articles, and I read them a while ago.)
     
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  2. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Its amusing the mental gynastics that Trump supporters will go through to justify their support of him
    Honestly why do you even do this ? Trump gaslighting is now so unhinged that only the deplorables living in their fantasy world refuse to accept this.
     
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  3. peter grimes

    peter grimes ... Moderator

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    The counterintelligence investigation was first mentioned in early 2017 on fringe blogs like Louise Mensch and Palmer Report. This is very interesting, and utterly shocking. This is nuts to be living through - far more of a mess than Watergate.
     
  4. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo https://thespacecadetblog.com/

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    I know Mueller has to build an overwhelming, ironclad case and all that but I really wish he'd be releasing it right about...6 months ago. For the love of god we need an off ramp out of this mess.
     
  5. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Suppose the investigation confirms that the entire Trump campaign and administration have been illegally coordinating with Russian intelligence and have lied about it every day since. Suppose there's a whole artillery battery's worth of smoking guns.

    Then what?

    Trump and the Republican party and propaganda arm have been working tirelessly for three years now to discredit any and all information that makes them look bad. They've spread the cry of "fake news" whenever they see something they don't like, and it's worked. Even "moderates" now distrust all media except what they don't understand is media, and whatever media they prefer. Half the country sincerely believes that all legal action against Trump is a conspiracy and that he cannot be held accountable.

    On top of this, we have an extreme, built-in conflict of interest in that we depend solely on a body of partisan politicians to try one of their own.

    Realistically, if there's a smoking gun...what happens next? There's little reason to think that Republicans or moderates will budge. The findings haven't been eye-opening so far; Trump and co. haven't tried very hard to conceal the evidence, so we've all seen more than enough.

    There's little reason to think the Republicans in the Senate would turn on him. They know he's guilty, they know they'll likely take a big hit if he goes down, and they know their voters think it's all a liberal plot. What motives would they have to try and convict anyone?
     
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  6. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Chieftain

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    Yea, so how long until Trump declares his national emergency on the border wall now? I got Monday. lol /smh
     
  7. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Chieftain

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    Aye the 33% seem ready to fight even if they are obviously delusional.
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo https://thespacecadetblog.com/

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    If all that were to play out, we'd have to march like the man just pulled our birthdays in the draft lottery to have any hope of reversing this slow motion coup.
     
  9. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

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    If they don't, a lot of them will be losing their jobs in the next election.
     
  10. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure Mueller has the goods. He also knows the game that the Republicans are playing. I think he will play it better. I think that Mueller will have all the evidence her needs to make a very convincing story/case. Trump may be unpredictable, but I think the majority of republicans will see the light. The big question is how many of the Trumps rats will be caught or will their be a concerted effort to find a way to let them all go free.
     
  11. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Would citizens likely do that? We're so beaten down by the daily drumbeat of new crimes and scandals, and busy with life, that I don't think people have it in them to resist anymore. I hope I'm wrong.
    How? Republican voters actually approve of denial, gaslighting, and obstruction of justice. Moderates and centrists are these things for the sake of it and change their views to stay in the middle of the Overton window wherever others may drag it. Dems already hate the Republican senators and wouldn't vote for them anyway.

    So much blatantly obvious crime and authoritarianism has already happened that I think everyone is settled permanently into their camps and nobody is left to be convinced. Why would a voter who's seen Trump's slavish deference to Putin, and his constantly shifting and increasingly suspicious story about the Russian meetings, finally be convinced by a released Mueller probe? They've had more than enough evidence to change their minds if their minds are able to change, and they haven't.
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    From the outside it seems that the astronomical level of polarisation in usa society simply won't allow an impeachment.
    Furthermore, it is poignant to recall that calls for impeachment started the minute trump was elected. Many even thought a pornstar's words would suffice to bring him down. Now trump isnt Obama, but considering the reaction to chronic calls for impeachment leading to only worsening polarisation... You can assume nothing can happen.
     
  13. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    Let's see how far Mueller comes with building up his case to the family members of him.
    And assuming that they were criminals too, and hoping that Mueller gets the evidence...
    let's see how the world of the Trump faithful will start to crumble when Jared et al are in prison.

    Trump may be the champion of the losers... their symbol of rebellion... but behind bars the glory will wane.

    EDIT BTW as breaking rumor
    Ivanka Trump is mentioned as new President of the World Bank
    By tradition Europe has the dominant say on the President of the IMF and the US on the President of the World Bank
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 5:34 AM
  14. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Way to miss the point.

    What.
     
  15. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Chieftain

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    Its hard doing those flips to keep Trump delusions going, sometimes even they get dizzy and miss a few.

    Or all of them but whose counting.
     
  16. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    I suspect having some of Trump's family in prison would just fuel the narrative that the big bad Deep State was persecuting their dear leader. If they're guilty, it still has to be done, but I think we can't afford to pin any hopes on the investigation, because Trump has thoroughly inoculated the cult and the compulsively centrist against accepting any evidence of guilt.

    I suppose it's possible that there are a few moderates left who didn't care about the thousands of lies and countless crimes Trump has committed so far, but who can be persuaded by the sight of enough smoking guns. But why might that be? Why would there be people who have ignored or rejected the mountains of evidence so far who could still somehow be moved by more of the same evidence?
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    For the record, I think that the common narrative of the 'fine people on both sides' is misconstruing what Trump meant, and that the media has run with this alternative interpretation as a means of building scandal. It was a bungled attempt to be a peace-maker.

    I can hold that position "the dog-whistling racist that placates racists as part of his base meant to be a peace-maker and bungled" and still think that ...

    Tweeting this is still strong evidence of racism.
    'Remembering' that New Jersey muslims celebrated 9/11, for years 'remembering' it this way is still strong evidence of racism.
    Proposing that the judge ruling against the fraudulent Trump University is 'biased' because he's of Mexican heritage is racist.
    Requesting that Warren conduct a DNA test to 'prove' her heritage turns out to have been racist enough that she got in trouble for doing it.


    But most of all, that first tweet. That tweet up there, that's a level of unacceptable racist actions that Trump's voters in the primary are stained with it.
     
  18. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Wait, are you using the term "fake news" for real? :lol:
     
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  19. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Yes, the polarization is dramatic in the US, but if the evidence is there, I don't think that the Republicans will condone it. Supporting criminal and or foreign agent actions by Trump will become politically impossible soon. Trump's base will be less important going forward if you are not Trump. To get elected Republicans will need to seek support outside of the 35% who are Trumpers all the time.
     
  20. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    The evidence is and has been there for some time. He has done everything he possibly could have to look guilty and most voters do not care.

    We've seen him grovel at Helsinki, blame the US and defend Russia, praise every dictator he has heard of, appoint people later convicted among other things of illegal cooperation with Russia, lie repeatedly about his meeting with Russians. The Republican voters, the "moderates," and the compulsively centrist have seen all of this and either reject the evidence of their own eyes and ears, think it happened but is okay, or somehow hold both views at once.
     
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