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Is Donald Trump Done for?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Archbob, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    So now we wait for SDNY... wrt releasing the report, I dont know if thats kosher if there are no further indictments. They're not supposed to publicize information just for the sake of releasing it. If the Feds investigated regular folk and pressed no charges, why would they get to tell everyone what they found? I suppose Mueller would have written the report with that in mind and only 'relevant' information will make its way into his findings. Giving it to Congress just so it could be leaked is messed up too.

    On the other hand, I want to know!
     
  2. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Vietnam... Course Nixon didn't lie us into that war but he was in charge when the Pentagon Papers were released.
     
  3. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    My first thought: since this is coming without indictments for Don Jr and Jared, that means Mueller doesn't have enough to make their participation in the Trump Tower meeting criminal, and therefore there won't be a sufficiently smocking gun to pin conspiracy on Trump.

    Just trying to read such tea leaves as we have.
     
  4. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I was flying back from Baltimore to Albuquerque on Southwest while Bush the younger was president and had an empty middle seat next to me. At the last minute Ari showed up and took the seat. I did not realize who he was when he sat down. I was a bit surprised when the flight attendants asked him if he wanted to change to a better seat. He said no. He read stuff during the flight but kept it close. We chatted and he said he was joining his boss in Santa Fe. No mention of who his boss was. I asked about who he was when I left the plane and was told.
     
  5. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Our involvement in the Vietnam War ended 44 years ago. That's not to say it doesn't also loom large, but people who were politically aware at the time are now pushing 60. Iraq is more relevant, and covers almost the entire body politic directly.
     
  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I think the financial crisis is more important because its effects are closer to Americans' lives than the effects of Iraq. Iraq is widely acknowledged as a disaster, but it happened in a far-off land that many Americans cannot identify on a map.
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Any counter intelligence content in Mueller's report must, by law, be released to the House Intelligence committee.
     
  8. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    It's not the war itself, so much as the president explicitly and repeatedly lied about the reasons for going to war (and about how easy it would be, and about being prepared for it, etc.). It was a massive and direct breach of trust in a way the financial crisis wasn't, even though the financial crisis more directly impacted most people's lives.
     
  9. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    He and Kissinger specifically sabotaged LBJ's peace talks to be able to use it to make him lose the election and then take power for themselves. Without their intervention the Viet Nam war would have been over (for the US, and perhaps even with South Viet Nam remaining free) several years and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of casualties earlier.
    The financial crisis was the result of deliberate policies that made for massive profits for a few people at the cost of suicidal increments in the volatility of the situation and eventually resulting in a worldwide catastrophe.

    And after writing that, I think I am not sure whether that cannot be said of the War on Terror itself.
     
    Berzerker likes this.
  10. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Iam suprised it took this long, but when your running 1Trillion deficit seems to have delayed the recession by about two years.
    I also guessing that the recession crash is going to be harder and longer as well.
    Enjoy everybody

     
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  11. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I think the point was that for a large chunk of the public, there is nothing, literally not one thing, that they will ever find convincing. I hope we're wrong on that.

    I'm pretty sure they can. In any case I don't think this will be withheld. Some particularly sensitive counterintelligence lines may be but I think it will be public in the next couple of weeks.


    I think that by and large, the tone the media takes on the many allegations against Trump is going to change. They frequently hedge their language and demur when talking about specific allegations that we all suspect to be true. Going forward, any of these specific allegations that show up in the Mueller report will be reported and discussed as fact by the media. I don't think even Fox will demur outside of their editorial staff. An example -

    It is alleged that Trump pissed on some hookers (today)
    Trump pissed on some hookers in Moscow that Putin paid for (near future)

    I think this will have a major impact on public opinion though likely not enough for the Senate to turn on him.
     
  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    As long as he doesn't actually go to prison and doesn't have his convictions upheld by a supreme court (state or federal) most of that loyal core will stick by him. And even then you'll have the fringe groups (flat-Earthers, actual Nazis, actual KKK, extreme Evangelical Christians, etc.) who will still say that it was a conspiracy and so on.
     
  13. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Still pinning hopes on the russia thing?

    Trump was isolated when this strategy was started against him, new to Washington's games. That is no longer the case. He sold out on several of his campaign promises but got many creatures of Washington working for him.

    My guess: Mueller knows this and has abandoned the russiagate gamble by now, he's not going to expose himself to retaliation for the sake of a spent political scheme. Don't count on this report to play any role in future attacks against Trump.
     
  14. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    It depends on what you mean by 'the Russia thing' as that phrase can encompass everything from 'Trump is literally texting with Putler right now' to 'Trump has a long and shady history with Deutsche Bank/Russian money launder/various Russian mobsters and his campaign chair apparently was trying to use his influence over the campaign to pay off debts he had to various unsavory Russians'.
     
  15. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    It was a complicated event with a very wide net of blame. That's not to say it isn't also a large contributing event to our general eroding trust in institutions, but it's not as straightforward and horrible as "the president lied to start a war."

    Well that's the other thing, when you peel back the layers of that onion, and realize that many friends of the president's inner circle profited mightily from the war he lied to start, it's also terrible for some of the same reasons the financial crisis was. In addition to, you know, widespread death and destruction.
     
  16. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    I'm not sure how much the Iraq War damaged Anericans' trust in government. The Republicans supported it to the end of Bush's presidency, whereupon they suddenly and collectively forgot it happened. I don't think you'll see much reflection and regret from rank-and-file Republican voters asking themselves how such deceit was allowed to happen. They just moved on immediately to "death panels" and "Kenyan crypto-Muslim communist seizes power."
     
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  17. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Campaign promises LMAO
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    And later on "9/11 happened on Obama's watch"
     
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  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    yeah, lying us into wars has a somewhat diluted loss of faith in government because we dont find out at the same time whereas the financial crisis Lex mentioned hit us all more directly virtually over night
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    I've been reading up on Abolhassan_Banisadr, the very first president of Iran with Khomeini as Supreme Leader (currently in exile) who claims that the Reagan campaign conspired to have the hostage crisis last longer to hurt Carter's chances of being re-elected. After what Nixon and Kissinger had done a decade earlier to kill LBJ's negotiations with North Viet Nam, and taking into account the Iran-Contra affair, I wouldn't be surprised. It's almost as if every US Republican president in the last half-century (ever since the bigot Southern strategy) had lied the country into one war or similar crisis after another.
    Well, yes, that widespread death and destruction is more visible when you can say ‘x-thousand people got killed in bombardments/IEDs/gunfire/etc.’ than when you see economic collapse (unless it is something visibly fast and degrading e.g. Venezuela under Chávez/Maduro).

    Buuut the debt crises engineered by the Bushes (Sr. gave out massive loans to developing countries and made their economies loan-dependent, Jr. applied the bootstraps theory and stopped all financing, which led to a financial collapse: that was the first, and then the big debt crisis: that was the second) have, in the long term, devastated infrastructure, education, and caused possibly more damage that is less visible, more insidious, harder to fight. Countries handed over to drug lords and/or religious fanatics, drain brains, net migration flows changing, ecological devastation… I am not sure whether that might not equal, when all is added up, the damage done by the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    I… hope? that I am wrong about that, but, yes, you are right that people won't comapre it to ‘the president lied to get us into a war’ and a lot of those non-military debacles happened outside the US and/or when Bush was no longer president, so most people will blame the furreinurs or Obama.
     

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