EnglishEdward
Deity
I meant which countries (a) has Trump withdrawn the US mlitary from and (b) been taken over by terrorists?
So let me see if I understand this - Trump gets credit for leaving places, even if terrorists assume control. Obama gets blame for leaving places because terrorists took control.
Makes sense
Trump gets credit for not starting any wars, thats why he's better than Obama.
I can agree with almost all of this except for the last line. The support of Israel has quieted things that boiled up during the Obama administration.Trump gets credit for supporting the Saudis in Yemen and the killings there. Trump is feeding the conflict with dollars/aid if not troops. He disengaged us from Syria to let a brutal dictator stay in power. He supports Israel in its suppression of Palestinians; he encourages war against Iran; he is working to help Turkey destroy the Kurds. You can nit pick some details, but Trump has been inflaming the area with more anger, hate and destruction.
That is indeed a very broad definition of war. It is not the one he used, but it is broad.Trump introduced U.S. ground troops to combat in Somalia, starting U.S. involvement in ground operations there. U.S. ground troops are elsewhere in Africa as well, running combat missions in countries we have previously not been engaged in.
Going by your broad definition, Trump appears to have started several wars directed at counter-insurgency. If French-led intervention in Libya and a civil war starting in Syria are somehow Obama's fault, certainly all the new ground combat missions in Africa are on Trump.
#alternativefactsThat is indeed a very broad definition of war. It is not the one he used,
If deploying troops is starting a war, then that is certainly an alternative fact.#alternativefacts
If deploying troops is starting a war, then that is certainly an alternative fact.
It is pretty easy to pick very narrow windows of time and affix blame or credit for events in that tiny window. You say Israel is our ally. How about GB and France and Germany? Trump seems to have no problem screwing them over and destabilizing NATO. The big picture is that the ME is just as f'ed up now as it was 10 years ago and 20 years ago and 30 years ago etc. The focus shifts around and the key players change, but nobody has improved things all around. Trump's role has been to stir the pot with Jerusalem; back Assad in Syria, abandon the Kurds and threaten war with Iran while he aids in the Saudi attacks on Yemen. At home he declares Muslims personna non grata.I can agree with almost all of this except for the last line. The support of Israel has quieted things that boiled up during the Obama administration.
More than anything there is a clearer regionwide policy. The first point is that Israel is our ally. The second is that ISIS is our enemy. Many choices are among bad and worse, particularly in this region. In most cases, a clear choice is preferable to playing both options. So, in spite of issues, you get improved stability.
J
That's not my definition. Berzerker claims Obama started a war in Libya, even though the French initiated Western intervention in a civil war that was already ongoing and we joined at their request.
The french wanted that war but couldn't have started it without the US.
Bush started the 'surge' in '07 and it had largely worked by the time Obama entered office. Based on the success Bush later agreed with the Iraqis we'd leave by '11, Obama wanted to leave so he didn't try to change the deal. Course the Sunnis were just biding their time, if things didn't improve and we were gone, they'd start fighting again. War broke out in Syria that year allowing for Sunni expansion if the insurgency resumed, and it did.
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Trump gets credit for supporting the Saudis in Yemen and the killings there. Trump is feeding the conflict with dollars/aid if not troops. He disengaged us from Syria to let a brutal dictator stay in power. He supports Israel in its suppression of Palestinians; he encourages war against Iran; he is working to help Turkey destroy the Kurds. You can nit pick some details, but Trump has been inflaming the area with more anger, hate and destruction.
Trump introduced U.S. ground troops to combat in Somalia, starting U.S. involvement in ground operations there. U.S. ground troops are elsewhere in Africa as well, running combat missions in countries we have previously not been engaged in.
Going by your broad definition, Trump appears to have started several wars directed at counter-insurgency. If French-led intervention in Libya and a civil war starting in Syria are somehow Obama's fault, certainly all the new ground combat missions in Africa are on Trump.
G.W.Bush and hes Neocon advisors didnt do anything. It was the work of men like Petraues, Mattis, Gates and McMasters
We've been at war in Somalia for years, you're not citing any wars Trump started. Obama armed the Syrian rebels and took part in dismantling Libya.
In all fairness the US was arming the Ukrainians before Trump.
We weren't. Congress passed authorization in 2014 for it, but the Obama administration did not follow through. Arms sales didn't begin until 2017 under Trump, and we've been providing air, naval, anti-tank. All kinds of light and heavy weaponry. All new under Trump.
So under Berzerker's definition, here we have Trump starting a war that Obama had decided not to start.
Believe what you must.