Is Donald Trump Done for?

[Timsup2nothin]

Any particular reason why it would be worse for the US, or more difficult for the US, to leave the middle east than stay there?
Surely staying doesn't help the average american at all - only helps the military-industrial complex and the oil & israeli lobby.

Everyone loves a politician who says "no more middle east wars!" Everyone hates a politician who says "yeah, our gas prices being less than half of what they are anywhere else in the world, we're gonna have to give that up" can't get elected dog catcher. Idiots who can't follow that those are connected become Libertarians.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Our gas prices are nowhere close to half those of anywhere else in the war. A lot of oil producing countries also subsidize the petroleum industry to keep prices low for their citizens. In Iran the average gas price now is apparently $1.08 per gallon, and used to be under $0.50 per gallon not too long ego.

The USA is now a net gasoline exporter anyway. We produce more than we use. A significant section of our economy would benefit from global gas prices rising due to a reduced supply being exported from the middle east.

US actions in the middle east have never had a good record in keeping gas prices low anyway. If anything they have led to more instability and disruptions in the supply. If we were not in the middle east, whoever took over would still sell to us. Even ISIS would love to sell us oil, and at a much lower price than the Saudis.

 

[Kyriakos]

Everyone loves a politician who says "no more middle east wars!" Everyone hates a politician who says "yeah, our gas prices being less than half of what they are anywhere else in the world, we're gonna have to give that up" can't get elected dog catcher. Idiots who can't follow that those are connected become Libertarians.

Wait, did you just argue that you think americans should support US staying in the middle east just so that you can have a little cheaper gas prices?
Man, if you actually have so low a view of americans, I just hope it is dead wrong, cause if it was true it would mean americans are not callous but insane. I am not buying it - it sounds like a false assumption to support some unwillingness to change when all logic leads to US gtfo of the middle east.

 

[Arakhor]

Unsurprisingly, voters don't like to be told bad news, so politicians vie to see who can spin the nicest fantasies whilst (usually) making some of the things actually attainable.

 

[Takhisis]

Wait, did you just argue that you think americans should support US staying in the middle east just so that you can have a little cheaper gas prices?

Nah, Tim was being sarcastic. But I remember 'Merican shills on internationally-syndicated TV shows explaining in '02, '03 that invading the middle east would mean cheaper gasoline that evil dictators wouldn't be able to use the oil weapon.

Unsurprisingly, voters don't like to be told bad news, so politicians vie to see who can spin the nicest fantasies whilst (usually) making some of the things actually attainable.

Well, that's about spin, really. The less petroleum we use, the better.

 

[Kyriakos]

Nah, Tim was being sarcastic. But I remember 'Merican shills on internationally-syndicated TV shows explaining in '02, '03 that invading the middle east would mean cheaper gasoline that evil dictators wouldn't be able to use the oil weapon.

I am not saying Tim says he (Tim) wants the US to stay in the ME so that gas price will be lower. I am saying that he seems to argue that the reason the US government doesn't leave the ME is because supposedly a majority of US people would rather have lower gas prices than save US lives and massive amounts of money by GTFO of the ME.
And I am not buying that there is a majority of americans who think that way.

Unsurprisingly, voters don't like to be told bad news, so politicians vie to see who can spin the nicest fantasies whilst (usually) making some of the things actually attainable.

That isn't bad news (a little higher gas price). It is a non-issue, cause the US won't have to pay massive amounts of dollars to maintain its army in the ME, so can cover (neutralize) the rise in gas prices assuming it would be even significant. I am saying this is a non-issue and americans aren't braindead to not identify it as a non-issue.
The only ones who gain from US in the ME are the arms companies & certain foreign lobbies.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I am not saying Tim says he (Tim) wants the US to stay in the ME so that gas price will be lower. I am saying that he seems to argue that the reason the US government doesn't leave the ME is because supposedly a majority of US people would rather have lower gas prices than save US lives and massive amounts of money by GTFO of the ME.
And I am not buying that there is a majority of americans who think that way.

Most don't care where the gas comes from, as long as it's cheap.
Besides, cheap gas was guaranteed to all Americans in the Constitution by Jesus himself!

 

[Takhisis]

I am not saying Tim says he (Tim) wants the US to stay in the ME so that gas price will be lower. I am saying that he seems to argue that the reason the US government doesn't leave the ME is because supposedly a majority of US people would rather have lower gas prices than save US lives and massive amounts of money by GTFO of the ME.
And I am not buying that there is a majority of americans who think that way.

a) look at Erika's acepaceous reply above
b) remember that the US electorate occasionally and in all cases only partially overlaps with the US citizenry and/or population. A lot of people don't vote.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I am not saying Tim says he (Tim) wants the US to stay in the ME so that gas price will be lower. I am saying that he seems to argue that the reason the US government doesn't leave the ME is because supposedly a majority of US people would rather have lower gas prices than save US lives and massive amounts of money by GTFO of the ME.
And I am not buying that there is a majority of americans who think that way.

Think again. The majority of Americans don't think about the middle east AT ALL. They think about gas prices. And a politician who raises their gas prices who believes that he will be able to say "but look, I got us out of the middle east" is a politician who would be run out of office on a rail. That's what makes the Libertarian movement so ridiculous. They look at these one sided issues in a vacuum and pretend they have solutions. "I'll get us out of the middle east and there will be no consequences whatsoever. Gosh, I don't know why no one has done it already." That is just patently stupid; pie in the sky with ice cream. And the Libertarians eat that crap up like it was straight sugar.

 

[Kyriakos]

Think again. The majority of Americans don't think about the middle east AT ALL. They think about gas prices. And a politician who raises their gas prices who believes that he will be able to say "but look, I got us out of the middle east" is a politician who would be run out of office on a rail. That's what makes the Libertarian movement so ridiculous. They look at these one sided issues in a vacuum and pretend they have solutions. "I'll get us out of the middle east and there will be no consequences whatsoever. Gosh, I don't know why no one has done it already." That is just patently stupid; pie in the sky with ice cream. And the Libertarians eat that crap up like it was straight sugar.

I don't think you are correct there.
What is beyond certain, though, is that @Takhisis was wrong re what you meant ^_^ Takhi, don't waste your talents in deciphering posts when you can help with proofreading

My own view of americans (and going by candidates and support too, eg the various anti-war candidates) is that you aren't dumb nor callous. But there is a sense that it is nearly impossible for you (the US) to finally leave the middle east. One has to suppose this sense is to a critical degree due to media and establishment politicians being tied to groups which certainly gain out of the US army staying in the middle east forever. Such groups include your military-industrial complex and foreign states like Saudi and Israel.

 

[Takhisis]

The Middle East is a petrol pump to the USian public. Individually they might be good folks who'd lend you money, take you to hospital, help your children with homework or any number of other favours, but get them into an election and they'll vote for whomever keeps gas prices down. All the things I'm quoting are actual TV. Reality is stranger than fiction.

And don't go on about proofreading, you. You'll get yours there.

 

[Kyriakos]

The Middle East is a petrol pump to the USian public. Individually they might be good folks who'd lend you money, take you to hospital, help your children with homework or any number of other favours, but get them into an election and they'll vote for whomever keeps gas prices down. All the things I'm quoting are actual TV. Reality is stranger than fiction.

And don't go on about proofreading, you. You'll get yours there.

Hey, I am not going to be silenced by covert threats, so let me say that I want to thank you for correcting me and I think the reason I was wrong was due to momentarily being visited by aliens and taken over.

 

[Takhisis]

How do you know you were wrong when I haven't sent you back the results yet? I smell a rodent of unusual size.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think you are correct there.

My own view of americans (and going by candidates and support too, eg the various anti-war candidates) is that you aren't dumb nor callous. But there is a sense that it is nearly impossible for you (the US) to finally leave the middle east. One has to suppose this sense is to a critical degree due to media and establishment politicians being tied to groups which certainly gain out of the US army staying in the middle east forever. Such groups include your military-industrial complex and foreign states like Saudi and Israel.

LOL...your 'own view of Americans' is FROM EFFING GREECE!!!!!

Just how arrogant are you? As a matter of curiosity, of course.

Yeah, I've not gotten anything about USians figured out in six decades, let me get on the internet and ask a translator from Greece!



Okay. Now that that is out of my system.

ONE more time. Sure, EVERYONE would "like to get out of the middle east." Sure, one note woe singers like Berzerker manage to fit "but middle east wars" into EVERY...SINGLE...CONVERSATION. But in terms of relative importance to the vast vast majority questions about getting out of the middle east are about as important as highway maintenance...no, wait...not nearly as. Maybe better controls on illegal fireworks...no, wait, not nearly as for that one either. Ummmm...I dunno...environmentally sound disposal of used batteries?

 

[Kyriakos]

LOL...your 'own view of Americans' is FROM F'ING GREECE!!!!!

Just how arrogant are you? As a matter of curiosity, of course.

Yeah, I've not gotten anything about USians figured out in six decades, let me get on the internet and ask a translator from Greece!



Okay. Now that that is out of my system.

ONE more time. Sure, EVERYONE would "like to get out of the middle east." Sure, one note woe singers like Berzerker manage to fit "but middle east wars" into EVERY...SINGLE...CONVERSATION. But in terms of relative importance to the vast vast majority questions about getting out of the middle east are about as important as highway maintenance...no, wait...not nearly as. Maybe better controls on illegal fireworks...no, wait, not nearly as for that one either. Ummmm...I dunno...environmentally sound disposal of used batteries?

Ehm, what I said is that I doubt americans are as lame and stupid as you present them, so that they would rather have a little lower gas price than avoid having tens of thousands of your own american soldiers get killed in the middle east and lose trillions of dollars in the process. If you think you are being presented in a good light by what you claimed then, by all means, do as you please. I don't see what my means of supporting myself financially has to do with all this, and re the country I am in, yes, I am not in the US, but I obviously read and understand English, maybe your idea that one needs more to get a nation whose people you yourself actually claim are dumb and callous is a little skewed, let alone ridiculously inconsistent

 

[Naskra]

California just raised its gas tax to 47.3 cents/gal. The Libertarian Illumminati triumph again!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Ehm, what I said is that I doubt americans are as lame and stupid as you present them, so that they would rather have a little lower gas price than avoid having tens of thousands of your own american soldiers get killed in the middle east and lose trillions of dollars in the process. If you think you are being presented in a good light by what you claimed then, by all means, do as you please. I don't see what my means of supporting myself financially has to do with all this, and re the country I am in, yes, I am not in the US, but I obviously read and understand English, maybe your idea that one needs more to get a nation whose people you yourself actually claim are dumb and callous is a little skewed, let alone ridiculously inconsistent

Guess what...they're not "dumb and callous," but they are driven by self interest, so YES gas prices are something a USian politician has to worry about a whole lot more than he has to worry about how Greeks are exaggerating the costs of involvement in the middle east and how many times the occasional internet troll can type "but mideast wars" on a game forum. Unless of course he is a LIBERTARIAN politician who is just politicking to massage his ego and knows that getting elected is not part of the program.

 

[Berzerker]

Trump, Kim handshake, talk of peace sinks US defense stocks - USA Today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...e-peace-talks-korea-defense-stocks/693927002/

Shares of Raytheon, which makes Patriot and Tomahawk missiles, closed 2.8% lower. Lockheed Martin, which supplies the Pentagon with air and missile defense systems as well as the F-35 Stealth fighter jet, tumbled 1.3%. And Northrop Grumman, which has increased its focus on cyber warfare and missile defense systems more recently, declined 1.5%. Boeing, which makes Apache helicopters and aerial refueling aircraft, dipped 0.1%. General Dynamics, a Navy shipbuilder, fell 1.6%.

By contrast, the Dow Jones industrial average finished the day virtually unchanged with a loss of less than 2 points.

California just raised its gas tax to 47.3 cents/gal. The Libertarian Illumminati triumph again!

is that progress or regress?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Did Ron Paul vote to invade Iraq?

Did Obama? Do you support/endorse Obama's Presidency? What party was the majority of folks in opposition to invading Iraq? Do you support that party? Obama is a Democrat.. Do you support/endorse Democrats?

So what's your point? Have several seats dude.

 

[FriendlyFire]

is that progress or regress?

Kansas has a 24% tax on petrol, it will be interesting to see where the state are going to find the funds it needs for roadworks
The EU pays an average of 60% tax on petrol. Its pretty much what the rest of the world is paying unless you happen to be an net petrol exporting state (Texas or Alaska)