Is Donald Trump Done for?

"Elections do have consequences"
but crimes don't unless you are a Democrat

I am super glad that this is out in the open, however. Even though a quid pro quo wasn't needed to make this a crime, it certainly makes the impeachment that much more straightforward to have multiple confessions on file.
 
This:
AmazonQueen said:
They aren't even hiding what he does anymore.
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is actually, I think, the answer to this:

AmazonQueen said:
I wonder what excuses rightwingers will come up with for this?
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The right by and large doesn't give excuses for Trump. They like it that he's openly flouting the law. There's a streak within the psychology of right-leaning people that we're seeing laid bare. Right-leaning people are comfortable than the left with authority and authorities in general. The more emphatically leaders project authority, the more they like it. Breaking the law in plain sight as though you are entitled to do so, authoritarianism, is, of course, on one level the opposite of the proper exercise of authority. But, on another level, it is just further along the continuum of the authority-ness with which the right is comfortable. They're not excusing it; they're relishing it.
 
Gori the Grey said:
This:


is actually, I think, the answer to this:



The right by and large doesn't give excuses for Trump. They like it that he's openly flouting the law. There's a streak within the psychology of right-leaning people that we're seeing laid bare. Right-leaning people are comfortable than the left with authority and authorities in general. The more emphatically leaders project authority, the more they like it. Breaking the law in plain sight as though you are entitled to do so, authoritarianism, is, of course, on one level the opposite of the proper exercise of authority. But, on another level, it is just further along the continuum of the authority-ness with which the right is comfortable. They're not excusing it; they're relishing it.
Click to expand...

There is also that psychological mechanism of brazenness, where people think "well if he isn't hiding it, it can't be wrong"
 
The Atlantic did a good piece on Trump's brazenness. I'm leaning on that and just layering in that people on one end of the political spectrum are even more susceptible to that quality (from Haidt, e.g.)
 
Lexicus said:
What? By what count? I was under the impression that only two or three people had complied with subpoenas and everyone else just ignored them...
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Well ok, let's see.

Testimony deposition/subpoena/request: Volker (resigned and testified), Yovanovitch + Kent + Fiona Hill + Sondland (defied WH, testified), Giuliani (defying Congress), Giuliani Henchmen 1 & 2 (in custody; I assume they'll testify or plead the Fifth), that Brechbul dude (no idea what he's been up to, haven't heard anything about him in weeks, but I think he said he "wanted" to testify. Who knows), McKinley (resigned and testified voluntarily). Not sure who else, if anyone. Hard to keep track.
Document subpoena/request: Pence + Perry + Pompeo + Mulvaney + OMB + DoD + Giuliani (all stonewalling)

So in terms of testimony, the Dems have mostly gotten what they wanted. In terms of documents, almost 100% stonewalling afaik, except for the texts handed over by Volker.

I'll move the goalpost a little to say it's too early to claim "they're letting them get away with it." The Dems have a lot of momentum and are still getting a lot of damning testimony and information and don't need to start litigating or trying to arrest people quite yet. They also (more or less) have popular opinion behind them. Pelosi's refusal to bring the inquiry to a vote probably reflects that she's confident that for the time being, they don't need to call the WH's bluff. And no, I don't think sending out the Sergeant at Arms to arrest Pompeo/Perry/Mulvaney is a realistic enough option that we can say not arresting those people is "letting them get away." Those issues will have to be settled eventually or adjudicated through the courts, which yes, could take months or years. Arresting Giuliani seems more doable, but (1) it's probably a bad idea and (2) maybe he'll get arrested via the justice system anyway.
 
Why is sending the House Sergeant at Arms to arrest people who refuse to comply with Congressional subpoena not a realistic option?

@ other stuff fair enough. Even the inherent contempt stuff, I suppose, would work better if it were seen to be a last resort.
 
Kaitzilla said:
I can't wait for the courts to weigh in on the limits of executive power.
Shall the Speaker get full access to the Executive every time a no-consequences whistle-blower passes along a juicy rumor?
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hobbsyoyo said:
Fox and Friends tried to argue that the White House didn't have to comply with Congressional subpoenas until the full House voted on an impeachment inquiry. Judge Napolitano quickly pointed out that none other than John Boehner changed the rules for subpoenas which gave every committee the ability to issue their own without a full House vote, making the GOP argument moot by their own machinations. He also pointed out that while you can challenge a subpoena, you can never just ignore it as the White House has done at their own peril.
Click to expand...

Welp, I stand corrected, thanks Hobbs.
The various House committees can subpoena people to testify and produce documents as long it furthers some “legitimate legislative purpose" without a full House vote.

The GOP really is the stupid party!
But to be fair, being stupid is a survival mechanism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2019/10/16/excessive-brain-activity-linked-shorter-life/
Excessive brain activity linked to a shorter life
Click to expand...
 
Lexicus said:
Why is sending the House Sergeant at Arms to arrest people who refuse to comply with Congressional subpoena not a realistic option?

@ other stuff fair enough. Even the inherent contempt stuff, I suppose, would work better if it were seen to be a last resort.
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Well, politically speaking, I can't imagine Congress arresting Mike Pompeo would play out well at all for the Dems. Procedurally, I'd also have objections.
 
Truthy said:
Well, politically speaking, I can't imagine Congress arresting Mike Pompeo would play out well at all for the Dems. Procedurally, I'd also have objections.
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I dunno man. "No one is above the law" plays pretty well, usually. If I get served a subpoena and respond with "yeah, piss off" getting arrested is the merest tip of the iceberg of problems it would create for me. Why should Pompeo be able to get away with it? I could pitch that pretty effectively I think, and I am nowhere near the skill level of a Nancy Pelosi or such.
 
Idk Trump tweets the whole thing is real life xXx: State of the Union, Ice Cube kills Nancy Pelosi, chaos ensues
 
Trump's inner circle crumbling for the 750th day in a row. He's been casting an ominous shadow over the state department for decades while on the phone with the Ukrainian president, and officials are stepping forward and bravely delving into the long-hidden past. There's been another cascade of revelations that have added literally hundreds of volumes to the ever-expanding, self-corroborating body of knowledge about the phone call from all the gathered peers— those diplomats, bureaucrats, cherubim and seraphim who stood in the room through the ages listening on the line as he broke law after law. The European union is chiming in as well since they have been on the phone almost since the dawn of time, and they wish to confess their role in Trump's pressure campaign against the Ukraine. The fake news came in today with extra-sweeping language about it, check it out

But just a week later, it has become clear that President Trump’s attempts to stonewall the Democrat-led inquiry that has imperiled his presidency and ensnared much of his inner circle are crumbling.

One by one, a parade of Trump administration career diplomats and senior officials has offered a cascade of revelations. Those accounts have corroborated and expanded upon key aspects of the whistle-blower complaint that spawned the impeachment inquiry into whether the president abused his power to enlist Ukraine to help him in the 2020 presidential election.

The latest disclosures came on Wednesday, when a former top aide to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo offered an inside account of what he said was a demoralized State Department, where career diplomats were sidelined and others apparently were pressed to use their posts “to advance domestic political objectives.” In six hours of voluntary testimony, the former aide, Michael McKinley, told impeachment investigators that he quit his post as Mr. Pompeo’s senior adviser amid mounting frustrations over the Trump administration’s treatment of diplomats and its failure to support them in the face of the impeachment inquiry, according to a copy of his opening remarks.
Click to expand...

>walls closing in
>beginning of the end
>bombshell
 
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