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Is Donald Trump Done for?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Archbob, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    That's not if he's competent or not.

    More than a few presidents are racist by modern standards, I would have to look at the details about Vietnam but there was no good option there.

    They got the troops out but sold an ally down the river to do it.

    Nixon didn't start the ear, probably thought he could win it cut and run but in hindsight o don't think any one else would have done any better.

    I suppose cutting and running earlier may have been a better idea.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Problem is that as a strategy the southern strategy doesn't demonstrate incompetence, because it worked. Nixon in many ways was like Trump, in that he saw himself as the only solution to the "big problems that are about to bring down America" and that messianic self appraisal then justified any short term action taken in pursuit of getting into and staying in office.
     
  3. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Nixon, even if he was a crook and a tax cheat, was at least interesting enough to have an opera made about him. I can't see Trump featuring in an opera.
     
  4. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Night on Bald Mountain could be the music. Trump as Chernabog makes a certain uncomfortable sense.
     
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  5. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Nah, that given Trump too much credit. Chernabog commands the Legions of Hell. Trump is a sort of mad prince surrounded by a motley group of grifters and racists.
     
  6. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Good point.
     
  7. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Deity

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    Selling down the river = A peace treaty which lasted 3 YEARS before North Vietnam decided to blatantly violate it.

    Nevertheless, the South had more men and better weapons, On paper, they should have been able to easily defeat the North. Unfortunately, the government of the South was so corrupt, the majority of the army refused to fight for them.
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    The southern strategy demonstrates incompetence and ineptitude from the POV of wanting the rulers of a country to be moderately statesmanlike. Moral bankruptcy as well as causing actual immediate damage. Hell, Goldwater had run only a few years earlier on ‘let's fight these Civil rights thangs’. :twitch:
     
  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Why shouldn't they have done so? They had a far more legitimate claim to be the government of all of Vietnam than the clique of inept kleptocrats the US propped up in the South. Same story as Korea, really.

    Hell, it's the same story in China too. The Nationalists got all this military aid from the US and the officials just sold it off to the Communists. Just like all the military hardware the US gave to its puppet government in Iraq somehow, inexplicably, ended up in the hands of the Islamic State.
     
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  10. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    The French had their chance to leave with a modicum of honour but they chose to remain colonial masters of the region.

    IIRC the North Vietnamese installed an interpreter for Marshall Ky who didn't actually translate what Ky said to the US military or vice versa. Early in the Vietnam War there were very few US fluent Vietnamese speakers. A brilliant bit of work engineered by Ho Chi Minh.
     
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  11. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    An interesting analysis on Donald Trump's acquisition of and permanence in power. Here are some selected quotes:

    (…) to reduce his presidency to this – one man and his frail mind – is to ignore how he got there, all he has said and done since he has been there, and how he remains there (…) For along with Trump’s personal frailties is a series of political characteristics that underpins his anomie. He is a misogynist, a racist, a xenophobe and a nationalist. Those are not psychological descriptors but political ones, fortified by systems and ideology.

    As such, his behaviour has been irascible but hardly erratic. The rhetorical objects of his disdain are not random. He has not lashed out at the National Rifle Association, the religious right or white people. Politically, his tantrums invariably find their mark in the weak, the poor, the dark, the female, the Muslim, the marginalised and the foreigner. (He will attack powerful people, but not simply for existing. They must cross him first.)

    These inclinations were clear when he stood for the presidency. He has been every bit as bigoted, undisciplined, indiscreet, thin-skinned and braggadocious as his campaign promised. And he won.

    This was not because people didn’t see those things, but because they either didn’t care, cared about other things more, preferred him to the alternative, or simply didn’t show up. As such, his victory marked a high point for the naked appeal of white supremacy in particular and rightwing populism in general, and a low point for the centre-left, neoliberal agenda.

    (…)

    As such, in his desire to blame everyone but himself, in his lies, bullying, despotism, insecurity, ineptitude, cheating, scapegoating, preening self-regard, vanity and ignorance, Trump is an emblem of the free-market, white supremacist nationalism that is ascendant in this moment.
    Also in reference to:
    comes this excerpt:
    Even his thuggish “America first” foreign policy stands as part of a tradition. In 1964, when the Greek ambassador tried to point out the shortcomings of the US plan to partition Cyprus, President Lyndon Johnson replied: “fudge your parliament and your constitution … We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr Ambassador. If your prime minister gives me talk about democracy, parliament and constitution he, his parliament and his constitution may not last long.” He would never have put that in a letter. But three years later, Greece was under a brutal military junta backed by the US from which it did not emerge for seven years.​

    edit: it doesn't say ‘fudge’ in the original article, that's the unnecessarily Puritanical autocorrect feature.
     
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  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Extra Points for posting the most Epic late-game Civ music OF ALL TIME :D
     
  13. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I'm going to write a tradedy based on Trump.
     
  14. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Excellent pre-emptive pitch to have your upcoming tradedy serialized in The Grauniad!

    From a marketing POV, the titles of many of The Guardian's Top 50 Operas don't need to be changed at all to fit the unmatched wise one's regime.
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/aug/20/top-50-operas
    Some just need a tiny bit of twerking. :)

    1 L'Covfefe
    4 sexreX
    6 Idiomneo
    14 Gigoletto
    17 Failstaff
    23 Infidelio
    30 Sadome
    34 Bannon
    36 The Battered Bride
    41 War and Not Peace
    42 The Rake's Egress
    48 The Turn of the Screw
    49 King Priapus
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2019
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  15. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I doubt that King Priapus had tiny hands...
     
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  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    That also... already... has happened.

     
  17. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Aren't tragedies fundamentally optimistic? He couldn't be the main character. He'd have to be in a comedy.
     
  18. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Tragedies, if we follow Aristotle (and best practice as established by Shakespeare as well as the ancient tragedians), require a fundamentally good person as the protagonist; otherwise the play doesn't elicit the tragic effect of raising and purging pity and fear (we don't pity evil characters; we just think they're getting their just deserts).

    I've figured out my work-around for that pesky little detail.

    Don't know about "optimistic"; the world of the tragedy has things moving in an upward direction after the events of the tragedy

    Do tell.
     
  19. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    It was Melania all along!

    If I had to hear "vaulting ambition" one more time in regards to that Scottish play, I was going to barf. It was poor choice in fondness of mate.
     
  20. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Macbeth is the tragic character who comes closest to violating Aristotle's dictum regarding the fundamental goodness of the tragic protagonist, but his conscience over his evil deeds (and that his evil is split with Lady) makes it work.
     

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