Is Donald Trump Done for?

[Lexicus]

Hillary was the status quo candidate

In a superficial sense, sure, but first woman president with an unprecedentedly anti-racist, left-wing platform? That's not status quo. Trump represents an attempt to return to a longer-term status quo, a historically larger and more significant status quo than the eight Obama years. Which, now that I think about it, were really just a continuation of that larger status quo anyway.

But voting is what made it, more voting won't fix it.

Are you endorsing 2nd Amendment solutions then? Or do you think you'll fix it by sitting around and doing nothing?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Are you endorsing 2nd Amendment solutions then? Or do you think you'll fix it by sitting around and doing nothing?

I've accepted that what we have (the Robert's court, Trump, et al) is, in fact, representative government. It unfortunately represents a nation of genuinely disgusting people, and the appropriate response is dissolution or expatriation.

 

[Berzerker]

Just think how forgotten Hillary would be out in left field if only you didn't drag her in from there in this random and totally dissociative fashion.

We were discussing the (im)morality of not voting, if 2 non-votes = 1 Trump vote and thats a bad thing then the implication is the moral vote was for Hillary. Somebody hit a ball out to left and wake Tim up.

So was Trump

On the contrary, he's about the most non-status quo candidate who could get elected.

In a superficial sense, sure, but first woman president with an unprecedentedly anti-racist, left-wing platform? That's not status quo. Trump represents an attempt to return to a longer-term status quo, a historically larger and more significant status quo than the eight Obama years. Which, now that I think about it, were really just a continuation of that larger status quo anyway.

Is the drug war an unprecedentedly anti-racist, left wing platform? She's been promoting that for decades. Hillary was the status quo on trade and foreign policy. Follow the money... You'll find the status quo at the end of the rainbow.

 

[onejayhawk]

That's why they call me Lexi-"unpredictable"-cus

Why cus? Polite is better.

J

 

[Berzerker]

competing with Trump for the moral high ground precludes politeness

 

[Naskra]

Are you endorsing 2nd Amendment solutions then?

No. You have a real gift for thinking the worst of people. I disgust you; you have told me so. My unguarded opinion would likely hospitalize you.
Here's a solution. You want to get rid of Trump? Just turn off the cameras and stop reading twitter. After a mere two week media blackout, Trump will get bored and resign. He'll do reality TV in Dubai or something. Just stop feeding the troll.

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: This may come as a surprise to some, but a thread about Trump should remain a thread about Trump, rather than divert into yet another random aside about Hillary Clinton. Sidetracking threads in this fashion will be treated as spam from here on.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[innonimatu]

You mean the plan we've hatched here at CFC:OT, or are you talking about some other plan?

After a year investigating, Mueller's big thing on Trump is that he spent some of his own money to pay for burying a negative story in a magazine? Something which he was allowed to make, and is only illegal because he did it in a roundabout way to hide what happened.

This only shows that the investigation is a which hung. That he caught some "witches" on things unrelated to the subject matter of the investigation will not persuade people who originally supported Trump. Thus is playing right into Trump's hands and helping him win future elections. Mueller is only backed by those already converted to the cause long ago.

And the cause was to politically neutralize Trump so that he could not go after those who had opposed hum before the election. If if was "russian collusion" investigation Mueller would have wrapped the thing by now, there are no more rocks to turn in order to discover new intelligence on what happened. He has hounded and threatened enough people from the Trump campaign that he'd have squeezed confessions if there were any to be had.
The people doing this have been so inept that they only dug themselves deeper and still will lose in my best guess. If they do the consequences will be far worse, for them personally and for the country. No foreign power could have engineered the degree of division they created!

Wishful thinking cannot replace political work. And scoundrels remain scoundrels even when they offer themselves as allies of opportunity. Those who what to replace Trump in power with someone better should have kept that in mind from day one after the election.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

After a year investigating, Mueller's big thing on Trump is that he spent some of his own money to pay for burying a negative story in a magazine? Something which he was allowed to make, and is only illegal because he did it in a roundabout way to hide what happened.

This only shows that the investigation is a which hung. That he caught some "witches" on things unrelated to the subject matter of the investigation will not persuade people who originally supported Trump. Thus is playing right into Trump's hands and helping him win future elections. Mueller is only backed by those already converted to the cause long ago.

And the cause was to politically neutralize Trump so that he could not go after those who had opposed hum before the election. If if was "russian collusion" investigation Mueller would have wrapped the thing by now, there are no more rocks to turn in order to discover new intelligence on what happened. He has hounded and threatened enough people from the Trump campaign that he'd have squeezed confessions if there were any to be had.
The people doing this have been so inept that they only dug themselves deeper and still will lose in my best guess. If they do the consequences will be far worse, for them personally and for the country. No foreign power could have engineered the degree of division they created!

Wishful thinking cannot replace political work. And scoundrels remain scoundrels even when they offer themselves as allies of opportunity. Those who what to replace Trump in power with someone better should have kept that in mind from day one after the election.

Too ridiculous to bother with personally.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/29/politics/benghazi-committee-special-counsel-robert-mueller/index.html

That should do it. I particularly like the exchange between Gowdy and Cummings.

 

[innonimatu]

Too ridiculous to bother with personally.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/29/politics/benghazi-committee-special-counsel-robert-mueller/index.html

That should do it. I particularly like the exchange between Gowdy and Cummings.

Even common judicial investigations are often political power plays. Prosecutors choose who to prosecute and who to let go. When it comes to special prosecutions, those are all political plays.

Call me cynical if you want. Just don't expect any more from one of those that what the political situation allows for. They are aides, not protagonists.

 

[Naskra]

When it comes to special prosecutions, those are all political plays.

Agreed. Mueller will produce only sound and fury. The emoluments case, otoh, can really damage Trump. I expect we will find, from the document discovery, that A) Trump is broke with unencumbered title to no assets, and B) he is just a front man for an assortment of shady investors.

 

[Ajidica]

After a year investigating, Mueller's big thing on Trump is that he spent some of his own money to pay for burying a negative story in a magazine? Something which he was allowed to make, and is only illegal because he did it in a roundabout way to hide what happened.

Who are you, who are so versed in the knowledge of the Office of the Special Counsel?

 

[Synobun]

No. You have a real gift for thinking the worst of people. I disgust you; you have told me so. My unguarded opinion would likely hospitalize you.
Here's a solution. You want to get rid of Trump? Just turn off the cameras and stop reading twitter. After a mere two week media blackout, Trump will get bored and resign. He'll do reality TV in Dubai or something. Just stop feeding the troll.

This is painfully naive and assumes that Trump's only power is in people reacting negatively to him. He's the president, dude. When he's loud, he's bad. When he's quiet, he's worse. It's like a toddler with sharpies, except this time with nukes.

 

[onejayhawk]

Agreed. Mueller will produce only sound and fury. The emoluments case, otoh, can really damage Trump. I expect we will find, from the document discovery, that A) Trump is broke with unencumbered title to no assets, and B) he is just a front man for an assortment of shady investors.

metalhead has been saying that for years. Of course, he's a bit biased.

This is painfully naive and assumes that Trump's only power is in people reacting negatively to him. He's the president, dude. When he's loud, he's bad. When he's quiet, he's worse. It's like a toddler with sharpies, except this time with nukes.

Isn't your position even more naive? Naskra credits him with some competence.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, as is so often the case when his legal situation takes a turn for the worse, Trump went on Faux news and blasted Jeff Sessions. We all by now know that Trump is furious that Sessions did the right thing and recused himself from an investigation with targets that included himself rather than showing his loyalty to Trump by hanging in there and leading the cover up early on when it might have worked.

Anyway, just another round of hellfire and damnation on the AG...but this time Sessions didn't lie there like a broken back cur and take the kicking. This time he snapped and snarled and showed his teeth.

What's different?

Here's my speculation...the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY has told Sessions that they have an iron clad lock, drop dead felony case against Trump and the only thing holding them back is the DoJ policy against indicting a sitting president. Whether they actually CAN indict or not would have to be settled by the Supreme Court and that likely cuts in Trump's favor, but in between the time they TRY to indict him and the decision by the SCOTUS the evidence would unquestionably wind up spread all over the NY Times.

 

[innonimatu]

@Naskra: I fear that the reason no one's really going after Trump on that (I don't believe they will make a real effort) is that many others have been doing the same thing. It could overthrow the whole political edifice, like Italy in the 90s after the mafia trails involved politicians. And in the end Italy still got Berlusconi, Renzi, etc.

It'll take the election of real "outsiders" (not from the wealthy class) for corruption to be tackled. Again, real political work to be done... otherwise the old cannot be replaced.

Who are you, who are so versed in the knowledge of the Office of the Special Counsel?

Someone who's been taking notice of the news and what came out of it so far?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Someone who's been taking notice of the news and what came out of it so far?

Apparently not, since you asked.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't think Trump is going anywhere. And even if he does then Pence becomes the president. How much of an upgrade is that really?

Enormous. Unless, of course, one either likes Assclown himself well enough or has been lying about how hysterically bad the president is to the extent that it's necessary to remove him. There are both plenty of Assclown aficionados and simple assclowns though, so expect them, I guess.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Enormous. Unless, of course, one either likes Assclown himself well enough or has been lying about how hysterically bad the president is to the extent that it's necessary to remove him. There are both plenty of Assclown aficionados and simple assclowns though, so expect them, I guess.

I'd say Pence is just as destructive and potentially more effective, so I don't see him as an upgrade. Does that make me a "simple assclown"?

BTW, if the Democrats get control of congress, then Pence would be an upgrade. He would feel compelled to actually govern instead of running a White House based reality show and media circus, and as long as governing wasn't rubber stamping more GOP madness into law that would be okay.

 

[Ajidica]

Someone who's been taking notice of the news and what came out of it so far?

If you've been paying attention to the news, you would know how good the Office of the Special Counsel has been at not leaking things. So we -the general public- really only know what has come out in indictments or leaked by people being investigated to try and do damage control.
We can make some guesses about Mueller's line of investigation, and it seems to be he is trying to get at Roger Stone and the Dingus Jr - DNC Hack - WikiLeaks connection which ever since it came out about a year ago has been pretty quiet publicly. Which Benjamin Wittes over at Lawfare is a good indication it is the subject of a serious investigation and not a SDNY sideshow like Cohen's pitiful porn star payoffs.