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[GS] Is England good now? (Post June 2019 update)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    A sea dog did not use an admiral IRL so I am happy with this. The fact that my sea dogs can fairly easily capture a Brazilian battleship is good enough. They are English, very much so and I love playing with them despite them being pointless because While I may be seen sometimes as some min/max fast game player I am not. I love to play England it just has to feel English.
    Yes, That would not make England OP or even second tier but it would make things right.
    I 100% agree. Naval warfare is beyond pointless, well it was until canals but the MP is not a big thing and while I posted the bug with Firaxis and heard nothing back, if it has been truly seen as coded that way then fair enough. I think what I struggle with is a civ V hang up of England’s getting +1 MP on ships.
    You misunderstand.
    They realised double trade routes were strong so stopped everyone using them but England for some reason.
    Then they took them off England.
    Then because of loyalty flip abuse possibilities they removed Pax which was a unique ability that sort of worked with redcoats as something vaguely historical... but it was a really fun mechanic that was removed and at that stage England was super weak.
    Then they made a big announcement of buffing England in the next patch which was really replacing a strong and fun pax mechanic with a really moronic free unit approach that was weak but worse not at all anything you could consider English.
    Then they added WOTW while destroying coastal cities. And the workshop was as weak as the +10 storage for resources, just not needed.
    Doubling of WOTW combined with cheaper industrial buildings is English, it is all later in the game but then England was not anything to consider early in history. It’s fine, they probably feel english to play and I look forward to building IZ’s for the first time in 2+ years beyond gaining inspirations.
    As @acluewithout rightly said, they need to fix some pretty bad mechanics to do with repair and also coastal cities should get some buff, probably in the form of housing.
     
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  2. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    @Victoria Agree with all that. I actually kinda wish England’s Factories produced more pollution. That would be cute, and fit with FXS increasing trend to give Civs downsides. Also, I’ve come around on the Sea Dog. I don’t think it needs to go - although, if we ever get Lizzie, it should probably be her unit. I just wished it fit better with England’s other abilities a little better (or visa versa). Although, you know, maybe it does already - eg it gets the +1 from the RND.

    Anyway. I don’t really think England needs any tweaks ever again. God knows I’m tweaked out. There’s some base mechanics that need work. That it, really.

    One point. I think the +10 resource capacity may be a bigger deal than it looks. Maybe it’s just me, but I find one problem with resources now that I get to my 50 then can’t hold any more. Then, when I’m upgrading or building units, I’m a little stuck with how many I can get out at once. There are other solutions- eg Magnus, buy more resources - but having that extra capacity I think will allow England to rush units more effectively, particularly Knights and Frigates. It’s not a big deal, but it is maybe useful.
     
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  3. _hero_

    _hero_ Chieftain

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    WotW has always been underrated in single player IMO. Optimal play involves actively seeking out AIs to sell strategics to. Any AI that isn't at their resource cap and has something to offer *will* buy from you while the resource is relevant. Just make sure not to sell more than 20 per trade (on normal speed). Bonus points if you also sell off diplo favor. The AI loves paying a fortune for it.

    Strategic selling is something that actually gets more powerful the harder the difficulty as the AI has more gold and also burns through the resources you sell them faster. It feels pretty broken when 80% of my gold per turn comes from the AI in BC time and I'm just cruising along buying a settler out of my magnus city every 2-3 turns and filling out the open spots faster then the Diety AI.
     
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  4. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    @acluewithout - Well, you'll be happy to learn that all these abilities we were discussing earlier will now stay permanently with the patch. :D
     
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  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yep, and every other thing that was restricted, the impact of this will be interesting
     
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  6. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    I’m stunned! Happy, but just stunned!
     
  7. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    Carl even went so far as to say it was a bug that had plagued the game for some time. I had to laugh at that, cause everything pointed to it being intentional. Not to mention that "bug" affected many, many abilities for 2 1/2 years - not a trivial thing or one that could easily be overlooked.

    Reminded me of a change that was made to England in one of the patches awhile back (with the bonus trade routes iirc), where it was clearly meant to be a certain way and even had an accurate description, but was later deemed a "bug". :lol:

    In any event, I'm glad this change will make some people happy.
     
  8. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    So, some initial thoughts on England:

    - Very excited about +1 movement carrying over to upgraded units. But it’s better than that - because it carries over to armadas and fleets, that means you can capture units with your Sea Dog and effectively give that +1 movement to the captured unit when you combine it with a home made unit. Same with units built before you have a RND. Not a big change in a way, but to me it finally feels like the little pirate ship that could actually has some synergy with England now.

    - Carrying over the experience bonus from encampments is a big buff for encampments, but also for hard built UUs. You’re still delayed getting them, but at least now you can get them experience bonuses to make up for that and those bonuses will stick around.

    - More things needing iron and less things needing niter is a big buff.

    - The “buffs” to the IZ all suit England. More likely to have lumber mills on coasts, and England can rush Canals etc., so potentially England can get better IZs faster. I mean, they may as well have given England a 20% to building IZs not just the building given there’s really nothing else IZ related they’re not getting bonuses for. I’m surprised FXS didn’t give the IZ a +2 from Harbours given the trend of the other boosts.

    I’m almost worried England is too powerful - I’m actually a little concerned everything is too powerful. I’m kinda hoping England gets extra pollution from Factories in another patch...

    Anyway. Looking forward to playing England.
     
  9. Leucarum

    Leucarum Chieftain

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    I think the IZ improvements were the missing part of the puzzle for the tweaks from what had been announced earlier.

    I very much doubt that the new set of abilities is overpowered since England's abilities still kick in quite late, and naval combat is rarely hugely consequential. But I like that the changes shore up their weakness for production along the coast. That should also make it somewhat less painful when harbours get hurricaned (though that will still be annoying). The abilities are also very thematic. Good job all round Firaxis.
     
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  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sea is irrelevant in SP. when 2 frigates can destroy 6 AI frigates without loss, when I can be at war with Norway and my galley finds 3 of their ships and they run away and when I can reduce things with battleships regardless, War on the water is irrelevant but the MP does make getting anywhere fast doable.
    There is no way England is too powerful, early civ's abd culture / science civs will always have an inherent benefit England cannot reach, especially if what they build first is factories and harbors.
     
  11. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    You maybe misunderstand me. I’m not saying England are powerful.

    I’m saying I like England a bit weak. It makes the victories that little more delicious.

    I’m just worried they’ve gone from C tier to B+.
     
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  12. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    *German screeching noises*

    They need to embrace the industrial revolution and give them the Dreadnought UU instead. Its a ship, it's made of iron and coal, it's indubitably British; what more do you want?!
    I don't actually care what it does. Early battleship @ steam power? An ironclad with super stats?

    I think it's much more impactful than people realize. If you run the building cards you might not always get +100%, but you can always get the +50%. I'll take the +22 yields for just having these buildings in a size 10 city. It's not like they'll be short of coal to burn to keep the lights on.

    Coal plants are probably one of the most OP things they ever added. It's just completely unbalancing for players who run craftsmen/five year plan and focus IZ adjacency. Unfortunately, this means you have to accept climate change. But the hardest choices, require the strongest coal mines wills.
     
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  13. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    England's biggest problem is (at least when I play England) is whatever continent I start on takes up at least 50% of the entire (Huge) map and I start in the middle of the continent. I am pretty sure it's coded to do so because when I play another Civ it's usually a few moves with my first scout and I have found at least one new continent.
     
  14. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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  15. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    One question.... does "amenity" count as a "yield"? If so... England has some very crazy stadiums! She would never need any luxury resources! Too bad stadiums come too late to make use of all those lux for gold trades.
     
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  16. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    The changes to ME are very good for England.

    Jesus. +10 Factories.

    Yeah. England are pretty solid now. IMO.
     
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  17. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    There’s a little bit of me that finds it very amusing that FXS buffed England (again) and finally fixed the whole RND movement bug ... but then accidentally removed the +1 movement entirely.

    Clearly FXS have it in for England.
     
  18. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

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    I agree with Victoria that the MP is kind of useless because you almost never have a meaningful naval contest with the AI. The only marginal use I can think of would be getting to a new continent slightly faster which could maybe make a one turn difference if you are meeting new Civs for tourism or finding some city states a bit earlier.

    But I assume naval movement is much more important in multiplayer? I only play single player myself but I have read some game reports and it sounds like ships are huge in some games.

    http://www.sullla.com/Civ6/PBEM4-1.html
     
  19. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    I would find it supremely hilarious if they announced:
    "After investigating the bug causing no +1 movement from RNDs, we have determined that the district is working as intended. +1 movement was simply never part of the design of the RND."
     
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  20. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    Just mentioning in this thread, the changes to airports and neighborhood buildings combo with WotW. So an english airport gives +10 production, a food market +10 food.
    (Which is obviously outrageous to anyone who's ever been through Heathrow.)

    They are very solidly a industrial era+ civ now.
     

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