Is Epic Tech Speed too fast?

Dawnpromise

Prince
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Oct 4, 2016
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Over the last few games I've played (King, Epic Speed, Huge Map (Planet Sim), 16 civs, tech trading on ) my games have all come to an end before the dawn of the 19th century AD. Usually around 500 turns. Now I'm not much of a history buff but I'm pretty sure they didn't have internet and nuclear bombs in the 18th century.

On a gameplay note the game flows normally until the renaissance era, then things seem to speed up. It's almost not even worth building units during the industrial era as they become obsolete really fast.

I'm not the only one experiencing this am I? Can I adjust this my tinkering witht he tech cost file? I think I'm gonna try moving up it to 200% (from 150%) for my next game and see how that goes.
 
I play on very similar settings as you (Emperor-Immortal, Epic, Huge (tectonic), 16 civs, tech trading). My games VERY consistently end between 1905 and 1920 ~500 turns, no matter the victory type, IN THIS PATCH. In the previous patches, my games were ending around 1940 and 1970 starting from ~530 turns and some going all the way into 600 turns, I have checked the replays, the newer games are most definitely shorter and are extremely consistent in ending 10-15 turns apart of each other while the older ones are all over the place but mostly close to ~570 turns (same settings). Some change in the recent patches made games faster for the settings that I use. Or is it that I have gotten better at the game?
Either way a far cry from the 1800s, are you sure your dates are correct? Maybe you meant at the dawn of the 20th century?
For comparison a game I played recently in Standard speed and map size ended on 1962 ~380 turns. Games in Huge are known to go a little faster. I am not sure what is the role of game speed on this. Any observations from Huge-Normal speed or Standard-Epic speed players?
 
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Here's some data to back my word. Also added some icons to indicate the victory type. The question mark map is Tectonics. Just compare the turns number.
Spoiler Older Games :
2.jpg

Spoiler Newer Games :
1.jpg

Some of the dates for older games are inaccurate, as I moved a few replays between PCs
Had more old games, of course, but between not being able to finish due to bugs or crashes and the games being played on different computers and losing the replays, these are what I could collect. I hope they help drive the point though. Would be nice to hear if other players have a similar experience

edit; the Casimir replay in the older games is not from the victory it seems maybe it's one that was saved after quitting? still supports the point though, 528 turns still in Atomic era.
 
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Without having data I would agree with OP, science speed is a little too fast. I play mainly Egypt as Tradition on Emperor difficulty and epic speed.

Regards
XSamatan
 
I have been experiencing the same, but on Deity. I suppose it is an unfortunate but natural consequence of the bonuses received by the AI. It almost makes we want to play play one difficulty lower, and make some other handicap for myself. I am surprised this is happening to you on King though as the AI bonus are pretty tame. Are the AI close to victory as well or are you leaving them in the dust?
 
With the other thread talking about the changes to tech speed in relation to map size, and this thread seeming to having the take that tech is already fast as it is (which I agree with imo), I think it would be fair to keep the values for the map size the same, and maybe even increase it a little. There was also some talk on a per era scale for science cost, which I can see the value in because yes as a game goes on generally you will have more and more cities. Much more so in higher difficulties as it becomes more & more necessary to war and weaken a snow-balling AI. Though and perhaps I've missed something but I also fail to see the purpose to this when you can just increase the base science cost of the techs themselves. I also saw keeping the values the same across map sizes, which I have to disagree with here because with more space also gives more time to settle before you have to start pumping out units to protect yourself from your neighbors. Maybe the disparity shouldn't be as big?

I've started 3 games on this patch, 2 to industrial and 1 to modern, and I too found that tech really does speed up in renaissance, if not industrial. Policy choice as well but I figure this is by design (I finish the 3rd tree way faster then I finish the 2nd or 1st, in probably half the time). It's hard without more testing to know what to contribute this to, but a common theme in my games was always to work Culture -> Scientist -> Diplomat specialist first. I know there's spies too but it's not just them, techs take a noticeable quicker amount of time to research. I think polices contribute a lot to this science gain, but it's hard nerfing them in any meaningful way without completely changing how they give science. The free scientist from oxford university is also really nice. All three of these games have been wide games (8 cities or more) so tall players may have a different experience.

I've thought about a few small nerfs in hopes of slowing it down; academy gain in physics to +2 instead of +3, Armory down to +1 (as even the military academy only gives 1), reducing school of philosophy golden age gain to +15% (golden ages seem pretty common around this time) or completely changing bank's science on purchase ability (but then renaissance would lose it's one and only science building). Really though, and I'm kind of kicking myself for not having seen it sooner then the time of this writing, I think the real offender here could be one thing in particular, in a little tech known as Scientific Theory. 2 very powerful buildings here (even if one is terrain dependent) but see, unless you're a weirdo who cares for the paltry 1 science on the military academy or happens to have a few embassies, unlike every other era, for industrial all the major boost in science take place in this one tech. This on top of expansion being pretty much over (no more increased science cost) and amassing enough GG's to really start expending them for citadels, just to name a few. I think it speaks for itself really.

To clarify, Scientific Theory gives you the public school, +1 to scientist specialist, and +3 to academies (and tech trade if enabled). In any other era these 3 bonuses would be spread out across 3 different techs.
 
Seems fine to me. I only find tech progression too fast in the last era, but that's because of the great scientists.

I understand there are some changes being made in the upcoming version, but I'd rather test those before speculating.
 
I've shown some of my own replays that clearly show that my games are, on average, 70 turns faster on the latest patches, on the settings I play on.
Don't the rest of you have any replays (that reach the end of the game or close)? You don't have to take screenshots, just go through them and tell us if your newer games take noticeably less turns.
Standard players, Huge players, Normal speed, Marathon, Deity, Warchief... we need you!
 
The main reason I brought this up was less a complaint at the actual speed of play, and more a complaint at the in-game dates failing to sync with realistic dates.

I don't suppose there's a config file or possible modmod to change the pace of the in-game calendar is there? Rather then messing up the game balance trying to fix this would it not be easier to simply change the in-game dates?
 
The main reason I brought this up was less a complaint at the actual speed of play, and more a complaint at the in-game dates failing to sync with realistic dates.

I don't suppose there's a config file or possible modmod to change the pace of the in-game calendar is there? Rather then messing up the game balance trying to fix this would it not be easier to simply change the in-game dates?
This is what I was thinking "why are my games ending in 1911 now? was it always like that?" and it just striked me as odd. And turns out, no it wasn't always like that. Even if we don't mean to bring the game's pace to where it used to be in the past, it's still important to be conscious of the way changes have altered our game experience. I would say games being 15% faster now is worth discussing.
When do you guys think the change happened?
I would suspect the change to Epic speed AI bonuses or the increased frequency of tech trading. Though we would need some more data from different settings to tell.
 
Tech progression in later eras even at Standard speed and King difficulty is super fast compared to previous eras. You barely get to enjoy using your advanced units before they obsolete.
 
I always play marathon deity and the tech speed is incredible. First techs need 30-70 turns to research which is OK but in the 2-3 last eras this can go down to 10-20 turns which is too fast for marathon (like 4-7 turns normal speed). I manually change tech cost in the difficulty XML file and make it 120% higher which helps only a bit - the problem is the rapid acceleration in the renaisaince and later - sometimes I increased tech cost by 200% in later eras to slow it down. By the way - marathon is too easy even on deity difficulty but for me faster speed is not fun - I like to build and enjoy my empire and be able to use each era's units for like 100-200 turns, not 30-50. Regarding the built in calendar - if I remember correctly atomic bombs in my games usually came in the first millennium :).
 
There was a patch maybe a year? ago that fixed incorrect science scaling with epic, before that it used to be slower.
The most recent AI Epic speed difficulty bonus scaling fix means AI gets more science, since there is a rebate on techs already researched this means tech rate goes up for everyone, add spies to this and it should be noticable. How much? I'm not sure.
 
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