Is Hugo Chavez On the Road to Becoming a Dictator?

[luiz]

I think he is to some extent, but there's a long way to go yet. Oh and if no term limits equals dictatorship, I guess the UK has always been one. I like term limits, but at the end of the day as long as the leader is subject to being voted out in free and fair elections, then democracy is satisfied. Venezuela is still there. I hope it stays there.

How about abolishing elections for mayor? Or beign able to suspend any election for governor, without court or congress approval, at any place at any time? Both of those powers are predicted within his constitutional change.

As for the OP question. No, he is not on the road to become a dictator. He already is one. The vote tomorrow is nothing but an attempt to justify his tyranny, if he loses the reform will pass either by fraud or force. And he already said he will arrest anyone who says there was fraud.

Let's just hope he eats some rotten fish and dies, or suffers a car crash, or the impact of a meteorite. Quite frankly I have no respect, intelectual or moral, for someone who supports that murderous dictator.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

How about abolishing elections for mayor? Or beign able to suspend any election for governor, without court or congress approval, at any place at time? Both of those powers are predicted within his constitutional change.

As for the OP question. No, he is not on the road to become a dictator. He already is one. The vote tomorrow is nothing but an attempt to justify his tyranny, if he loses the reform will pass either by fraud or force. And he already said he will arrest anyone who says there was fraud.

Let's just hope he eats some rotten fish and dies, or suffers a car crash, or the impact of a meteorite.

When he loses a free election and doesn't step down, or when refuses to hold a free election, he's a dictator. You're letting your distaste with the man cloud your judgement. I don't like any of those things you listed in the opening paragraph, and they don't bode well for democracy in Venezuela. But lets not get carried away, otherwise our condemnation will mean nothing if and when he does cross the line.

 

[George2816]

No, you couldn't. Presidents in the US can only serve two terms. Plus, there is a series of checks and balances on their powers. Are you really this ignorant of how the government works?

What check and/or balance can out weight a presidents signing statement? (None the courts are around bush's finger!)

 

[MadScotsMan]

What check and/or balance can out weight a presidents signing statement? (None the courts are around bush's finger!)

Congress can. Have you taken your high school government class yet?

 

[plarq]

Congress can. Have you taken your high school government class yet?

Bush can veto, Congress can overwrite it.

 

[CCA]

Why is there no poll?

And Hugo Chavez is merely Venezuela's Bush, slightly more authoritarian than vanilla. Albeit a popular, more effective and more intelligent one.

 

[The Yankee]

No,l I dont believe he is. Inceidentally, the People who are saying yes might want to stop citing him not having a term limit as a reason, because if thats the case then most of Europe is a dictatorship.

For the last time, it isn't merely about having a lack of term limits. It's that he's changing the rules that he apparently agreed to when he first became President to benefit himself.

If it's such a great idea, then pass it and have it come into effect for the next President.

 

[The Yankee]

What check and/or balance can out weight a presidents signing statement? (None the courts are around bush's finger!)

Why must you turn every thread into a Bush thread? This thread has nothing to do with Bush. If you want to go discuss Bush's signing statements, then make a thread.

Besides, Chavez's sins are not washed away because Bush does certain things in the USA.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Why must you turn every thread into a Bush thread? This thread has nothing to do with Bush. If you want to go discuss Bush's signing statements, then make a thread.

Besides, Chavez's sins are not washed away because Bush does certain things in the USA.

Because he's a DL built for trolling.

 

[skadistic]

Because he's a DL built for trolling.

And not a very good one.


What excuse will the Chavez supporters come up with when his is set firm in his iron seat ruling by his iron fist and kicking all dissent with his iron boot? More then he does now. The man said he wanted to rule (not govern) until he was 95.

 

[sourboy]

Yes, and it's unfortunate. Without a limit on a leaders terms, there will never be a true democracy.

 

[George2816]

Congress can. Have you taken your high school government class yet?

Sighing statements?? congress can not do anything about the signing statements. Where is your gov't class did it say about signing statements? (I'm willing to bet it said nothing because bush used them more then any other president!)

Why must you turn every thread into a Bush thread? This thread has nothing to do with Bush. If you want to go discuss Bush's signing statements, then make a thread.

Besides, Chavez's sins are not washed away because Bush does certain things in the USA.

I was comparing what bush and chavez were doing and since people don't call bush a dictator then they have no right to call chavez a dictator!

Why is there no poll?

And Hugo Chavez is merely Venezuela's Bush, slightly more authoritarian than vanilla. Albeit a popular, more effective and more intelligent one.

that about sums it up!

Bush can veto, Congress can overwrite it.

Signing statements? Congress has no rights the signing statements.

because he's a DL built for trolling

Sorry no i was comparing bush and chavez and there are more things alike then different!

 

[luiz]

OK, Georgy-boy, so when Bush proposes to kill elections for mayor and name rulers both for cities and for whole states directly, without any court or congress approval, you will have the "right" to compare the two, as you say.

Also, to my knowledge Bush has not created an armed militia to defend his "revolution". Nor has he shut down any TV station.

---
Basically, people who compare Bush to Chávez are either clueless pre-teenagers or plain liers.

 

[The Yankee]

Some news on tomorrow's vote:

link

The latest polls show a dead-heat in voter intentions -- setting the scene for street violence if the losing side refuses to recognize a close result.

The referendum calls for a scrapping of term limits for the president, opening the way for Chavez to stay on past January 2013, when he is due to step down.

The 53-year-old president said Friday he wanted to reign "until 2050," if the people backed him.

Changes to allow the government to take over the central bank and expropriate private property in the name of "economic socialism," and gag the media in times of emergency are also being proposed.

Opponents, whose number has swelled in past weeks with the defection of some Chavez allies, say the reforms would amount to making Venezuela a Cuba-like communist state, with an elected "dictator".

Chavez, who reveres Cuba's Fidel Castro, dismisses those ranked against him as "traitors" acting to further US "imperialism."

"A vote 'yes' is a vote for Chavez -- a vote 'no' is a vote for (US President) George W. Bush," he said.

link

Chavez told tens of thousands of supporters in Caracas he is prepared to stay in power until 2050 if voters pass his proposal, which includes eliminating presidential term limits. He vowed to seize Spanish banks and expel journalists from the country to defend his goal of turning Venezuela into a socialist state.

``I swear to God and to my mother that if I have to take up an assault rifle to defend my country, I will again,'' Chavez, 53, said to a cheering crowd at the referendum campaign's final rally last night. ``Our victory this Sunday is a defeat to our enemy, the North American empire.''

By portraying Venezuela's economic independence and his so- called socialist revolution as being under siege, Chavez is seeking to motivate undecided supporters to approve the referendum, said David Scott Palmer, a professor of political science and international relations at Boston University.

``Chavez sees a tightening electoral situation for Sunday and this explains the invective and the increase in conspiracy theories involving various foreign actors,'' Palmer said in a telephone interview.

Today, Chavez said he would shut down oil exports to the U.S. if it interferes in tomorrow's vote. That would send the price of oil to $200 a barrel, he told foreign journalists at a Caracas press conference.

....

Chavez said he'll shut down local news channel Globovision and expel foreign journalists if they ``break rules'' in their coverage of the referendum.

link

Chavez, 53, warmed the crowd up by serenading them with holiday "gaitas" and other traditional songs before turning his attention to a litany of enemies and perceived enemies: internal critics, the United States, Spain's King Juan Carlos, Colombia's President Alvaro Uribe and domestic and international media.

"We're not really confronting those peons of imperialism," Chavez said, alluding to his Venezuelan opponents. "Our true enemy is called the North American empire, and ... we're going to give another knockout to Bush."

He renewed his harsh criticisms of Juan Carlos and Uribe, with whom he has had recent high-profile disputes, and threatened to take independent Venezuela television network Globovision off the air if it broadcast partial results during the voting. He also threatened to take action against international networks, accusing CNN in particular of overstating the strength of the opposition's numbers.

"If any international channel comes here to take part in an operation from the imperialist against Venezuela, your reporters will be thrown out of the country, they will not be able to work here," Chavez said. "People at CNN, listen carefully: This is just a warning."

Nah, he's fully democratic. Nothing to see here, folks.

 

[skadistic]

Sighing statements?

What exactly is a signing statement? Can you give me 5 examples?

 

[skadistic]

"A vote 'yes' is a vote for Chavez -- a vote 'no' is a vote for (US President) George W. Bush,"

Chavez said he'll shut down local news channel Globovision and expel foreign journalists if they ``break rules'' in their coverage of the referendum.

"If any international channel comes here to take part in an operation from the imperialist against Venezuela, your reporters will be thrown out of the country, they will not be able to work here," Chavez said. "People at CNN, listen carefully: This is just a warning."

The man is an idiot. Worse he is a dangerous idiot with power. ( and no George he isn't an idiot just like Bush)

 

[RedRalph]

So guyts, what are you going to fdo if he loses? It'll sort of undermine your argument that he's a dictator. Dictators dont lose polls.

 

[The Yankee]

So guyts, what are you going to fdo if he loses? It'll sort of undermine your argument that he's a dictator. Dictators dont lose polls.

We'd have to see what he does after the poll to determine that, won't we?

 

[Red Door]

What check and/or balance can out weight a presidents signing statement? (None the courts are around bush's finger!)

Read This and then come back to me.

How many courts are around Bush's finger? Can you point out these courts and name which judges are because I think the DOJ would like to know.

 

[amadeus]

So guyts, what are you going to fdo if he loses? It'll sort of undermine your argument that he's a dictator. Dictators dont lose polls.

Mugabe lost a vote too and that didn't stop him.