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Is it ever advisable to build many cities and run Liberty now in BNW?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Horizons, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    I'm surprised only two people have mentioned religion, and that only as an aside.

    To start off with, religion is at its most powerful with a wide empire. That's because religious costs don't scale but income (faith) and benefits do scale (the more cities you have, the more shrines, temples, pagodas etc.). That is, it's not like culture where costs go up the more the more cities you have.

    When going wide, prioritize an early religion, maybe build Oracle, and look for the following:
    • Goddess of Love (+1 :c5happy: / city of size 6)
    • Ceremonial Burial (+1 :c5happy: / 2 cities in any civ)
    • Asceticism (+1 :c5happy: / shrine)
    • Cathedrals (+1 :c5happy: / city)
    • Mosques (+1 :c5happy: / city)
    • Pagodas (+2 :c5happy: / city)
    • Peace Gardens (+2 :c5happy: / garden)
    • Religious Center (+2 :c5happy: / temple)
    If you prioritize and thus get an enhanced religion before the AIs take the above, it's typical to get an easy +4 or +5 :c5happy: per city. That's huge and critical to a wide empire.
     
  2. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    To go along with this, three policies in Piety will double your faith output and make the buildings cheaper. Its no good to have the picks if you can't get them on the board. With this 'double fatih' you can still get them out in a timely manner even in the late eras.

    In my opinion, you need Liberty if you are going over 5 or 6 cities.
     
  3. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    Need is a strong word here I think. Honor gives you +1happiness/+2culture per city. The only thing Liberty really provides that can't be found elsewhere is the bonus worker/setler/great person. While crucial if you're depending on them to do something else with your capital production, if that's not so important to you, then you're not losing much by going with honor instead, and gaining a great military.

    The only time I ever bother with liberty is when I specifically don't want to be building a worker and a settler in those crucial early stages. Everything else is in the policy is nice if you've already invested in the tree, but not worth it if you didn't get something of substance for the worker/settler production you saved.
     
  4. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Agreed with that... the discount off religious buildings can be huge, to a wide empire.

    To follow up on the religion idea... it's also very possible to be a religion <bleep>. Trying not to be crude here, but basically swap yourself around to any and all takers. When you get a religion in a city, buy its happy-producing buildings, then convert it to another religion and buy those too.

    to do this, you do not want to prioritize early religion, but you need to ensure that you ramp up your faith production midgame, big time. You'll need faith not just to buy the buildings, but to get a bunch of missionaries/prophets for conversion as well. Djenne is a good idea, as well as the Piety policies.
     
  5. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

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    You could also get a religion from Another civ and if lucky that religion is very good for happines.
     
  6. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    While, I have often thought about doing this, I havent actually gotten around to doing it yet.
     
  7. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    You also generally have more followers, and more cities for city-based bonuses like Ceremonial Burial. More cities are also better for spreading your religion to other civs than a few small cities.

    I usually forgo CB because Tithe is a more important bonus for wide empires early on, when money is a bigger problem than happiness unless you have a lot of duplicate luxuries in the landscape (which is why I took CB in this playthrough - on the one hand, the Moroccan UA was helping me financially so Tithe is less important, thoughI still expect to be hit hard when I complete all the key buildings I need; on the other, nearly all the settlable sites had gold and nothing else - I've got one city with copper and one with ivory; a site with marble was taken by Elizabeth, while the only incense in the landscape is not in a desirable city spot).

    One issue with Civ V's 'tall/wide' dichotomy, and its tailoring of particular effects for particular types of play, is that it lacks a middle ground. Anything from 1-6 cities works well with Tradition without running into serious happiness problems from Tradition's growth boost, and is what most players would characterise as "tall" (although 4 is generally settled on). Liberty works best with 10+ cities. Between 7 and 9 you're playing suboptimally with either.
     

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