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Is it just bad luck?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by peewee69, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. peewee69

    peewee69 Chieftain

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    Hi all!

    First of all, many thanks to all of you for your great posts, I have learnt a great deal from this forum, I love it!

    So after reading this great thread:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=546111 by Todelotti

    I have been inspired to try to achieve a similar victory with similar settings. I have long believed that my bad luck has played a big part in my games, I hardly ever get chance to follow a lot of the advice on these forums simply because I often get given really poor maps and really unfortunate situations. By trying to play a comparable game I wish to test just how much influence my bad has on my game!

    So here are the settings:

    Map: Pangaea
    Climate: Temperate
    Sea Level: Medium
    Shore Line: Random
    Map Size: Standard
    Difficulty: Monarch
    Game Speed: Normal

    Leader/Civ: Ragnar / Viking Empire

    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG

    Save file: View attachment Bad Luck BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

    So, how do we begin?
     
  2. peewee69

    peewee69 Chieftain

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    I believe it would be best to SIP. Nasty looking plains all around the cities outer ring, but quite a few riverside grass for some cottages, and good resources too. Or maybe even 1W might be better to free up the river-grass-hill for a mine?

    Research AH while worker builds, then mining.

    Worker to improve pigs first, then cows, then mine hills in the south (or the river-hill if we move settler?)

    I wouldn't move my scout until city founded. I do not see there being any reason to move city away from pigs. Then maybe move scout to any discovered huts after settling.
     
  3. Todelotti

    Todelotti Warlord

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    Good luck for the game! The setting looks quite familiar to me ;) The early marble might give some different options (Oracle? I had stone instead in BFC.)

    I think, I would SIP. I say this just by counting the green tiles and I get one more (basically the hut tile) and one plains tile less when you SIP instead of moving 1W. In both cases the number of forests to chop is the same and also all resources are in BFC in both cases.

    AH seems pretty clear with pigs and cows as food.

    But wait for other opinions, I'm still a noob ... :)
     
  4. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    Settling on riverside wine tile seem to be the only alternative. I would move scout 1E2N to see whether there is food north of wine.
    1W = 1 extra green hill but 2 less grasslands => SIP better.
     
  5. TurinReborn

    TurinReborn Chieftain

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    Riverside wine would only be an option if theres any food up there, because plains cow is the worst food in the game.
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    SIP.

    I can guarantee you that it's not about luck, but some games are much harder than others. Pangaea is among the easiest and non-luck dependent map scripts though.
     
  7. Chase_2_Rabbits

    Chase_2_Rabbits Warlord

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    Location:
    Losing them both...
    I think it's always a good idea to move your scout or warrior before settling - you never know what you might reveal; an additional premium food source or gold/gems in your capital can be a game changer. Maybe it's different with huts enabled, but you'll find that the vast majortity of experienced players turn them off. On the highest difficulty levels, it's just another boost to the AI as they hoover them up with their plethora of early exploration units

    This is almost certainly a SIP. We've got 6 green river tiles for financial cottages, plus the marble. Even from the 4000BC screenshot, it's already looking like we take the aesthetics route and bulb our way to Lib (taking MT) and go on a good ol' fashioned pangaea Cuir stomp.
     
  8. Kallikrates

    Kallikrates Prince

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    SIP is better for forests. I' probably settle 1W because riverside hill is good especially with FIN) and this would allow a city 1S or 1E of the pig if convenient (is that a lake or coast). But it's no big deal. It's by no means a bad start unless one is completely spoiled by super food or trade starts.

    If you want to reduce luck switch of huts.
     
  9. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Hmm. I think riverside grassland is more valuable than riverside hill, especially for FIN leaders.
     
  10. Kallikrates

    Kallikrates Prince

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    you are probably right, especially because the windmills come so late. Still early on the city will work some hill mines for settlers etc. and 1C in addition is always nice.
    I would move the scout NW to see how the coast looks. If another city has to go there, SIP would probably be better because 1W would get too close. Still, for some reason I am not so fond of settling on grass hills..
     
  11. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I used to be a bit annoyed too when the settler starts on grass hill, but then I realized it's not very rational.

    Btw, settling on the marble is not out of the question. I actually think it's the optimal play if playing way below your normal difficulty, thus aiming to win as quickly as possible (HAs come to mind).
     
  12. peewee69

    peewee69 Chieftain

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    OK, moved scout 1NW 1N.

    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    I see no reason to move settler north at all and would vote to SIP.

    Agreed?
     
  13. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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  14. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    It is quite a challenging start indeed. Then again, it's a level far below deity so should be winnable ;)
     
  15. peewee69

    peewee69 Chieftain

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    Seraiel, you are such a defeatist! :crazyeye:

    I do not yet think the game is lost, we are only on turn 0!

    And remember, this is a test of my luck. It is perfectly normal for this game to throw me a bad start. Trust me, even with a good starting location, my luck would soon change! I have to learn how to make the most from bad situations, not just quit (which I do usually do!)

    Have now settled.

    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Will build worker. Research AH (although I will do the no-research trick for the first few turns to see if I pop a tech from either of the huts).
     
  16. Kallikrates

    Kallikrates Prince

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    Sorry, but this is not a terrible start. It may be mediocre but I have seen much worse (and lived to tell of them). You are a little low on food, but there is one good food source and 3 more pretty good tiles, several river tiles. Although what your second screenshot reveals is even more mediocre. Still, if this is Pangea you can conquer better land. among the LHC isolation maps there are several which are worse, I seem to recall and you are isolated on top of that. A more difficult map is a different challenge but not necessarily lesser than a level higher with a two gems three pig start.
     
  17. oranje willem

    oranje willem Prince

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    How can you possibly consider this a bad start? 2 very strong early tiles in cows/pigs, enough cottage sites and marble for plenty of options. I wouldn't be surprised if there's horses nearby, but you will know soon enough (AH first duh!).
     
  18. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I'm a HoF-player, so everything that's not double Corn double Gold upwards is ugly for me ;) . I got the following start for the current Deity-Gauntlet, and found me criticizing that it's a little low on Food ^^ :

    Spoiler :




    When looking at this start, I only saw all the Plains, and those are really gross. Capital has 10 good tiles, if at all.
     
  19. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    I'll give this game a shot after my current game. That way we can compare since we are working on a similar level :)
     
  20. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    The capital itself is decent I suppose - though far from great - but the land around looks dreadful. Tundra north, desert west, maybe coast east, and lots of plains in every direction. Almost no forests too, which can be problematic in itself.

    Good luck, though, there are certainly worse starts than this.
     

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