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Is it just me or does Civ V feel like a step backwards for the series?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by LGWolf, Jul 19, 2019.

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Is it just me or does Civ V feel like a step backwards for the series?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Other (Explain in comments)

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  1. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think the mountain thing is more of an issue with V, since it creates logistical nightmares. (Note: Carthage units can go over mountains when first GG is earned) Conversely, in IV, I think impassable mountains actually work well for the game as choke points are an interesting feature, while stacking removes the logistical issues.
     
  2. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I remember fondly building roads through the mountains with my alpine troops providing cover in II. But no big thing.
     
    Playsoneasy likes this.
  3. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I find this post highly ironic, since you accuse the folks here of arrogance and superiority yet your post drips superiority and arrogance itself.

    Civ 5 may not be a "complete failure" but I got bored with it after a few years and I've been playing Civ 4 since 2006 (finished my most recent game last week). Never even bothered to get Civ 6 because it looked like more of the same as Civ 5.

    I had some fun with Civ 5 but the warfare doesn't present a challenge. There were very few situations where the AI actually could threaten the player with destruction, which is emphatically not the case in Civ 4. There is just nothing in Civ 5 to match that feeling of panic when the AI attacks you with a stack you're not sure you can handle.

    You can claim stacks are a flaw all you want, and I even agree that 1-upt is better in theory, but the reality is the AI in Civ 5 (and by all accounts Civ 6) is not equipped to handle 1-upt and that is an understatement.

    I also never really played on the higher difficulties, but it took months of work to get to Emperor in Civ 4 whereas in Civ 5 I was beating Emperor almost without trying.

    I also personally do not like the absence of sliders and the whip in Civ 5, it makes the game feel like a bin-filling exercise rather than managing an empire.

    Impassable mountains are rarely if ever an issue for me in Civ 4. Honestly don't know what that dude is talking about when he says it messes up the AI pathfinding.
     
    gavenkoa and rah like this.
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Pdox games do this *and* have the UI lie to you outright more frequently, so their shovel digs the bar a bit further into the ground.

    The biggest sin of the newer civ games is that they waste more IRL time. In Civ 4 you could have a won game significantly before it was over, and that's a problem. In never titles this time is more than doubled, partially due to bad UI, partially due to bad engine/programming, and partially due to bad decisions by the design team. So many complaints about how the end game is boring, and there is a reason for that.

    There is an edge case where it does. Most noticeable on Earth 18 civs (between Aztec and Inca), but could happen elsewhere with random maps on occasion.

    If you're on same continent and completely blocked by mountains, the AI can get into an eternal plot war because it will try a land route (impossible) and ignore naval invasion routines due to being same continent. Permanent WHEOOHRN, never declares.

    Civ 4 had its own UI lies and failures, though they were fewer than newer iterations and Civ 4's UI design was much, much, much, much better at allowing the player to actually play the game. It's still possible to manage 50-100 cities in Civ 4 faster than even top Korean pro StarCraft players could possibly manage 20-30 in Civ 5 or 6, simply because the engine can't keep up win inputs, inconsistently buffers inputs, and you actually need significantly more inputs despite 1/2 to 1/3 the city count.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    Imp. Knoedel likes this.
  5. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    What numbers does EU4 hide from you? Only thing I've got off the top of my head is the PU/inheritance mechanic, and I can kinda understand why they kept that nebulous. The only "lie" the UI tells me that annoys me on a regular basis is the protect trade numbers. Though I don't think that's so much a lie as the game not providing the most relevant number for me to make decisions.

    CK2 is a different story and I've definitely felt lied to before about inheritance/peacedeals/province vs holdings control. But I'm also much less fluent in that game.
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't think EU IV necessarily hides stuff from you nor do I think the UI is poor. I do think "lie" aspects probably come mainly from frequent updates where new features break old features. The fort and ZoC has always been perplexing. Anyway, EuIV and Dox games have a great deal of information and I think for the most part, other than breaking things/bugs, the games do a reasonable job of representing that information. Also, I think the players that enjoy these games, like me, thrive on that information. Definitely a niche genre and definitely not for everyone.

    Regardless, the quality control on updates could be far better than it has been.
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    The HOI4 UI leaves a lot to be desired but in fairness it is difficult to see how it could display certain things without being impossibly clunky. Still, the tooltips should do a better job of showing the various factors affecting certain values, things like that.
     
  8. fantsu

    fantsu Prince

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    IV is ways ahead of V still.
    But V used to be really bad.
    I could not even play it for months as it crashed all the time. I never got the multiplayer to work before I stopped playing it. The AI is really bad in V. Its just not good game like IV is. A huge mess. Sure they fixed it mostly, but it was too little too late. V has nothing to do with Civilization, even III is better.
    VI has same problems as V, but I actually like how it looks and the new city structure fits to 1upt. Its an upgrade to V, but cannot compete with IV.
     

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