Is it just me or is religion victory op?

[BiggJobag]

Is it just me or is religion victory op?

On my first playthrough after installing the game, I picked Prince difficulty (4) and a random leader, which turned out to be Philip II of Spain. About halfway through, I realised the best way to win would be a religion victory, but it was too late to make that happen. On my second playthrough, I selected Philip, again on Prince. This time I had religion as my focus from the outset. I founded early, built a few Holy Districts, chose beliefs to make Missionaries cheaper and more powerful vis. the Mosque building, and then just spammed Missionaries and the odd Apostle until I won on turn 277, during the Renaissance, on the same evening.

Winning by miles without having to alter my plans, without coming up against stiff resistance, and without once even coming close to armed conflict, and all this in about 3 or 4 hours, strikes me as very poor balance. Anybody else? Or was I just lucky? Or am I just a genius?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Much will depend on what AIs you come up against and what agendas they have. Phillip is a pretty powerful Leader for a religious victory and at the lower levels the AI isn't that great, once you step up to Emperor things get a bit trickier.

 

[myclan]

I think you can win easily not because religion/Spain is overpowerful but AI is too weak under Prince difficulty

 

[Leyrann]

Difficulty isn't too high and religion is very swingy. Some games it's super easy to get rolling, other games, at least at higher levels, you might not even be able to get a religion if you're not Russia or Arabia.

 

[Victoria]

Prince is the problem... 277 was a fairly long time but still OK
Religious victories with Yerevan are OP on higher levels
Experienced RV players get sub 200 on higher levels if you want something to go for.

For most victories, you can get them on most levels but it's about how quickly and generally a sub 200 is a good target. Playing to that target rather than just victory makes the game more challenging.

 

[stormerne]

Winning by miles without having to alter my plans, without coming up against stiff resistance, and without once even coming close to armed conflict, and all this in about 3 or 4 hours, strikes me as very poor balance. Anybody else? Or was I just lucky? Or am I just a genius?

For your first play through (or two), what strikes me is you made a mature strategic decision that would illude many, and that was to access the situation and select the best (or at least a good) way forward. Bravo on that!

The more important thing to ask yourself is, did you enjoy it? Some people avoid religious victories because either they had experiences like yours, or they find the mechanics rather repetitive and limited.

I think it would be a shame if your first foray into the game ends up colored by this, which is why I recommend that new players attempt a cultural victory first (selecting their civ accordingly) as they'll learn much more about the richness and diversity of the game than probably any other way.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't think religious victories would be too common vs opponents with a pulse, since you'd need to build military capable of defending the missionaries and constantly escort them, quite likely at a production disadvantage.

 

[BiggJobag]

Thanks to everyone for the insightful responses! I'll be sure to put your suggestions into practice.

 

[PendragonWRB]

At the highest levels, getting a religion can slow your start and possibly make the early game a bit more challenging, but winning with Religion does feel easier than all but Domination. I usually do a mix of the two for the quickest possible route to finishing a game.

 

[Amrunril]

Religious victory is easy only because the AI is incompetent at defending against it. Even without declaring war (by far the easiest way of stopping religious units) inquisitors can re-convert cities far more efficiently than apostles can convert them.

 

[myclan]

Religious victory is easy only because the AI is incompetent at defending against it. Even without declaring war (by far the easiest way of stopping religious units) inquisitors can re-convert cities far more efficiently than apostles can convert them.

If ai knows he should stop you from winning a religion /science/culture victory by war, all victory condition will be conquest victory

 

[Amrunril]

If ai knows he should stop you from winning a religion /science/culture victory by war, all victory condition will be conquest victory

That's not true for science and culture victory: defending your own territory while winning a science or culture victory should require some investment, but that's not nearly the same investment needed to actually go out and conquer every other civ on the map. Religious victory is different because it requires not just defending your own territory but moving vulnerable civilian units into every other civ's territory.

 

[oedali]

I go for RV on Deity and the first ~60 turns is the toughest. You have to throw everything into founding a religion, watch the GP race every turn, defend holy site, buy the GP with faith, etc. If you succeed (low chance of likelihood, ~20% except Russia and Arabia) then rest the game is less challenging. But it still offers fun variety because in some games the AI is more aggressive with its religion and will send waves of apostles to deal with. It's actually easier if your neighbor has its own religion because you can declare war and kill their apostles without having to spend faith. I also aim for victory before turn 200.

 

[myclan]

I go for RV on Deity and the first ~60 turns is the toughest. You have to throw everything into founding a religion, watch the GP race every turn, defend holy site, buy the GP with faith, etc. If you succeed (low chance of likelihood, ~20% except Russia and Arabia) then rest the game is less challenging. But it still offers fun variety because in some games the AI is more aggressive with its religion and will send waves of apostles to deal with. It's actually easier if your neighbor has its own religion because you can declare war and kill their apostles without having to spend faith. I also aim for victory before turn 200.

AI are too fond of competing for great phophet,which makes founding a religion just a too risky choice.
And we can do many things to develop our country better instead of founding a religion. Which I agree with you,actually the most difficult part of the game

 

[DeutschDachs]

I think playing Pangaea vs continents or other island maps also affects the ease of victory

 

[BiggJobag]

I would agree. I played on Island Plates and had to spend next to nothing on land military units. Once it seemed like ai China was going to invade, but they didn't escort their embarked army and when I moved three naval units into the vicinity they decided to go home again.

 

[cazaderonus]

Winning on turn 277 on prince if you re playing normal speed is far from being a fast win... As for not encountering any resistance. Well its prince.

Pretty sure you can get a t150ish cultural win on prince without even trying that hard

 

[VTMatt]

For most victories, you can get them on most levels but it's about how quickly and generally a sub 200 is a good target. Playing to that target rather than just victory makes the game more challenging.

Someday I'll win a game by these standards I play on Emperor usually, sometimes King, but I average wins in 300-350 turns. I think I enjoy the early empire buildup too much, I like focusing on my domestic empire, then snowballing into victory later on.

Regarding religion, I tried a game of it a while ago, and had a very different impression than OP actually. I found it pretty easy to get one going, but very tedious to actually convert everybody. It felt like a domination victory where my military all got 3 attacks, then vanished off the map. Especially converting the civs that weren't right next to me felt like 95% of the battle was just transporting them across the globe to go convert the natives.

I just play with religious victory off now.

 

[Victoria]

I just play with religious victory off now.

I leave it on... I have never lost to one so why bother spending the effort to turn it off.

I am not a brilliant player and also do like to role play but my weakness is in understanding how things work. A lot of people are looking for the challenge which is why i suggested the 200 mark... its quite a hard ask and I often do not make it. My main problem with 350 is it gets a bit samey.

 

[BiggJobag]

So sth that seems obvious to me now is that difficulty ratings have moved down from Civ5. I chose Prince difficulty bc I assumed, being in the middle of the range, it would be a reasonable enough challenge without being too harsh. Next time I'll bump it up a notch or two.