Is it possible to recover an economy?

[shed]

In my current game I've reached the stage where my unit's are striking (what exactly does that mean will happen?) I presume because I can't afford to pay the maintenance. I'm already running at 0% science\100% gold too.

A little background: This is my first game on Prince in BTS and I'm playing as the Dutch. That's right, I've managed to run my economy into the ground even though I'm playing as a Financial Civ . I started on a small continent with the Portuguese fella for company so I decided to try an early-ish attack to claim the continent for myself. Discovered Bronze working and founded my second city next to some copper a fair distance to the North of my capital. I'd also scouted all the available land by this time, save a few squares around his capital, and it was the only copper on the island.

Get the copper hooked up after a while and start building my army whilst researching Iron working. Turns out there's a Iron source right between our two capitals so I quickly found a third city to claim that. Hook up the iron and decide to continue building an bigger army with swordsman as well.

Then out of nowhere a Portuguese swordsman appears wondering casually by
Of course, he had another source of Iron on one of the 9 or so squares I hadn't been able to scout next to his capital No turning back now having spent so long producing units so I build even more, knowing I'll be facing Axemen and Swordsmen as well as archers. Finally, I declare war.

Basically it went a lot better than I expected given he has the same units available and we were about even according to the power graph. I've razed one city, captured two others and I've now got a stack sitting outside his capital, having just razed his iron. This is when I got the Unit Striking message. I hadn't noticed my costs rocketing and my research rate dropping like a stone as I'd been too busy warring.

My plan now is to throw everything at his capital, hopefully take it and remove his ability to make Swordsmen and Axemen, then I can finish him off in due course (he still has 4 cities left). Thing is, assuming I manage to take his capital, can I recover this situation or is it a case of I'm always going to be too far behind, tech wise? What should I have done differently to avoid this (I'm guessing attack sooner). Unfortunately, he won't give me any tech for peace at the moment, although he may change his tune if I manage to steal his palace away from him. Cheers for any advice.

 

[Diamondeye]

If you beat his capital, he'll want to declare peace. But I might think you should raze it to save your economy. The most important thing when your research rate is dropping like a stone is to spam cottages. Seriously. only thing that can get your economy up in gear again. I've just finished a Genghis Khan game where I only was at peace total 20 turns or so since first war. My research slowly fell from 50 to 20%, and then I started to cottagespam my empire now consisting of Mongolia, France and Sumeria. I managed to get it up and stay 40-50%, even 60-70 in a golden age. I used the money to tech Guilds and Civil service before going military nutz on Saladin and Lincoln, winning Domination in 1520 AD after having beaten Saladin and taken 2 American cities.

 

[thomson_2001]

strike means you will sell off some unitsto cover your costs

to recover your economy you will prob have to:

- switch civics to more cash effective ones,
- run as many cities as possible on wealth,
- change the land to cottages,
- starve some cities to run as many merchant specialists
- delete old units such as scouts
- do trades for your resources/techs

no problemo


but how could you do it with the economic powerhouse of the dutch!

 

[Mesix]

You are probaly paying high maintainance costs on the cities that you conquered. In addition to the above advice, getting courthouses in your cities would also help to revive your economy (assuming you have code of laws researched).

 

[thomson_2001]

yeah courthouses a must is expanding alot early on.

also just though, pillage like MAD if you desperately need cash

 

[boc4j]

If your army is too big, the upkeep costs may be taking up a large chunk of your income.
It may be wise to get rid of some, depending on your situation.

 

[Silbeg]

I would agree with your current plan... throw everything at the capital!

You should get a healthy gold bonus if you take it, and he'll be more likely to give in to you (or maybe even capitulate?).

Take him for everything he has, and then spend as much effort as you can getting courthouses, and spamming cottages. Sounds like it is pretty early in the game for you, so I would think you have a chance to recover. Developing your economy should probably be your primary concern (others have already posted much about how to do this!)

 

[Silbeg]

If your army is too big, the upkeep costs may be taking up a large chunk of your income.
It may be wise to get rid of some, depending on your situation.

And, if he attacks (and takes) the Portuguese capital, he'll probably take care of a good deal of that problem.

 

[Desert-Fox]

I got strike problems only when I attempted emperor/immortal levels to try rush challenges in duel maps... but in prince... it is hard to achieve.

 

[VLGoldenJew]

I've had this happen a few times, where I war-monger myself into economic oblivion. It sucks . One of the key preemptive things is to make sure you have a city or three that is an economic power-house-- either lots of cottages or set it up to run merchants if you're doing a SE. It's easy to forget to do this though if the terrain isn't favorable or you're just so excited to see the stack of axemen descending upon your hapless opponent (mmm... virtual bloodlust).

As Thomson mentioned, pillaging like crazy can keep your economy up for a bit, but you've gotta make sure you're rapidly cottaging or building courthouses or whatever you have to do to break even.

 

[ShannonCT]

I'm guessing you don't have Code of Laws for courthouses or Currency for building wealth in cities or you wouldn't be in this predicament. My advice:

Avoid at all costs losing units from your attacking force. If you can take his capital, you'll be over the hump. Disband all scouts, and even disband warriors/archers that are protecting small cities that can afford losing the happiness points. If barbs come for an undefended city, you can whip an archer later. Switch all of your cities to their highest commerce tiles and stop producing units. Produce workers if you dont have enough and start cottaging next to rivers (hopefully you have pottery). Whip something useful in any city that has no commerce tiles (smaller population = lower maintenance). If you can capture the Portugese capital, use the money to beeline to Code of Laws. Keep the capital if it has decent commerce. Raze any more small cities you take.

 

[shed]

Thanks everyone for all the advice

You're right ShannonCT, I don't have Code of Laws or Currency probably should have mentioned that.

Ok, I'll go for his capital once I've got a few more units over to it. I think if I throw everything I've got at it I outnumber the 8-10 defenders he's got by about 2-1 (at work so can't check). Unfortunately it's built up to 50% defence (no I don't have construction for catapults yet either) and he just got and used a GG to spread a few promotions around so it's certainly not going to be easy. Despite what it will do to my economy to keep the city, I don't want to raze it as he'll just settle there again and get access to the iron back.

So assuming I get his capital, I will make peace (hopefully getting at least one tech) and then I can concentrate on my Economy. Is it worth switching the civics off Slavery and OR for cheaper upkeep? Or do the benefits outweigh the costs? Obviously I'll get rid of some of my units. As said, I'll no doubt lose quite a few capturing the capital. I've cottaged quite a bit but perhaps they are not being worked, I usually let the city adviser get on with it. I'll break the habit and micro-manage them for once.

 

[Steiner-Davion]

Cottages are essential to Economic Viability. THere is almost no such thing as too many cottages/towns.
Courthouses, Marketplaces, Grocers, Banks are also must haves,
Maintence is a killer. OCmbat it with fewer cities, and courthouses in every one.

 

[Lord_Zath]

Thanks everyone for all the advice

You're right ShannonCT, I don't have Code of Laws or Currency probably should have mentioned that.

Ok, I'll go for his capital once I've got a few more units over to it. I think if I throw everything I've got at it I outnumber the 8-10 defenders he's got by about 2-1 (at work so can't check). Unfortunately it's built up to 50% defence (no I don't have construction for catapults yet either) and he just got and used a GG to spread a few promotions around so it's certainly not going to be easy. Despite what it will do to my economy to keep the city, I don't want to raze it as he'll just settle there again and get access to the iron back.

So assuming I get his capital, I will make peace (hopefully getting at least one tech) and then I can concentrate on my Economy. Is it worth switching the civics off Slavery and OR for cheaper upkeep? Or do the benefits outweigh the costs? Obviously I'll get rid of some of my units. As said, I'll no doubt lose quite a few capturing the capital. I've cottaged quite a bit but perhaps they are not being worked, I usually let the city adviser get on with it. I'll break the habit and micro-manage them for once.

If you have nothing to build other than units, OR isn't incredibly helpful (unless you use it for missionaries to spread your religion).

Something else is if you have a Great Prophet, make your religion's shrine (if you have religion).

Also, losing units in combat would mean less unit upkeep, so that could actually help you...

 

[thomson_2001]

guess most of my advice not too useful as so early in the game. i hit strike once when had treasury stolen by spy and was running specialist economy with slider at 0%. i too was at war, had foreight troop costs not to mention a huge army and the costs from new cities pre courthouses on another continent. only things i could do were to assign more merchants (starved some cities for this but they took a while to shrink a pop size) . well that and pillaged although broke my heart as when was was over simply rebuilt new towns lol

i try to rush COL not only for the courthouses but also to get a religion, early courhouses save you a TON...and it means nice early war doable

 

[brades]

I try and time my first golden age right after I do my first early war. Usually I start with REXing, followed by an axe/sword/horsie rush. If you take more than one city at a time you will inevitable destroy your economy, but if you have a great person ready for this the 10 turns of golden age post war will allow your economy to get back on track and operating stronger than ever. And its possible to generate 2 more great people during that first golden age, by switching to the appropriate civics, to extend the golden age. In all my monarch games a well timed golden age can be the difference between disaster and winning.

BTW first post, long time reader. This site has helped my consistently win on monarch.

 

[Dominico]

CHeck your cities too because sometimes when you are at war a long time a lot of the problem is that you get unhappiness which wrecks how much money you are making. If you capture that last capital quickly and then call for peace then you will see your income jump a lot i would be sure.

Also being a warmonger and heading for mainly military things will mean you lose out as your cities dont have money making infastructure etc.

One important thing to do i find in all games is to make wars as fast as you can, if things start to bog down then you need peace and then declare again later. This can cause problems of course if there are other civs involved in the relationship as they can get a -1 "you declared war on our friend" so check if this is a problem.

Finally i think in this game if you have not met anyone else yet on other continents you will be in for a suprise when you do. Normally long protracted wars like this one you have had mean you are quite backward compared to other nations out there, especially if they have had a peacefull "upbringing"! lol This is fun though and makes for interesting games later on if you are not put off by a bit of hardship!

I played one game where i was so backward from constant warring, i thought i was powerfull owning a whole continent till 3 or 4 nations arrived to carve it up from me!! I now know how the American Indians felt lol!

 

[bardolph]

Avoid at all costs losing units from your attacking force. If you can take his capital, you'll be over the hump.

Disband all scouts, and even disband warriors/archers that are protecting small cities that can afford losing the happiness points. If barbs come for an undefended city, you can whip an archer later.

Not good advice. Often, the maintenance costs of your military, plus the "foreign soil" cost is what's tanking your economy in the first place.

Use your attacking force wisely, but don't be afraid to sacrifice units to capture important objectives. Losing units will only ease the burden on your economy, and it's far better to go down fighting than to disband without a fight.

Disbanding the last defender of a city is usually bad advice, and should only be considered as an absolute last resort. The immediate penalty may give you unhappy citizens, which are a DRAIN on your economy. The best way to get out of Strike is to put citizens to work on productive tiles, preferably cottages. Taking the attitude that you can "whip a defender later" is probably going to get you into trouble. Population is the SOLUTION to your troubles, and you should not be whipping your population unless you are in danger of breeding unhappy citizens, or you are whipping out buildings that yield immediate economic benefits, like Courthouses, Markets, or buildings.

Switch all of your cities to their highest commerce tiles and stop producing units. Produce workers if you dont have enough and start cottaging next to rivers (hopefully you have pottery). Whip something useful in any city that has no commerce tiles (smaller population = lower maintenance). If you can capture the Portugese capital, use the money to beeline to Code of Laws. Keep the capital if it has decent commerce. Raze any more small cities you take.

Yes, you should stop producing units. That includes workers, since workers incur maintenance costs, unless you are desperately short on workers and don't have enough cottages.

Again, your solution is to have the LARGEST population your empire can support, since every citizen is a potential cottage worked, and since your are Financial, a riverside cottage is worth 3 commerce right out the gate. Excessive whipping will make the problem worse, not better.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Early game rulez to overcome overexpansion caused by military beeline:
1. Grow those cities to the happy cap, so you can work more cottage tiles! You probably whipped your pop to the ground, to get that many units before code of laws. Add some farms to speed up the process.
2. Acquire the Early "Large Empire" techs: Writing, Alphabet, Currency, Code of Laws.
The first two are most people's priority anyway, but the latter two had better come online ASAP, once the number of cities you own surpasses 3-5. (The exact number of cities depends on the situation.)
2a. Once you get writing, build libraries and assign Scientist specialists to get Code of Laws and Currency, asap. You have to assign your commerce slider to gold until you have currency, but you still have to tech to currency to really get out of the red. Scientist specialists are one way out.
3. You will have lots of units. Units cost more if they are roaming outside your borders so bringing them home will help a little. The fewer units you have helps a little too, but if you have Monarchy, you can use Hereditary Rule to increase your happy cap (+1 unit cost for +1 happy citizen, a real good trade-off). That way, you don't have to disband your whole army if you intend to use it again soon (What a waste, right?).

 

[MrFrodo]

Ya, I just did this to myself...again...

Trying out Shaka on Monarch with a Small Pangea map. The closest, seemingly best candidate for early rush is Alexandre, but he managed to build 5 cities quickly, and I couldn't make impis until IW due to no copper and the Iron I finally found was far away. So I took a while to mount a force. Then I had to capture 5 cities. Normally, I would destroy some of them, but they all had juicy, yummy resources or was the capital. So now I have 8 cities, massive maintenance, even though all my nearby cities have the UB barracks -20% maintenance buildings. The worst part is I don't have currency to make wealth, or any way to allow Merchant specialists. I'm spamming cottages, but that takes time. I usally play Darius, so this is weird for me.

Bye Impis, , thanks for kicking Greek butt, sorry I couldn't pay you for it ...just hope I don't loose the heavily promoted ones