Is it possible to win the game when you start with all techs on turn 1?

historix69

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Regarding the progress-based inflationary cost increase for districts (1000%), buying tiles, etc. I wonder how long a player would survive if he would start in 4000 BC with a settler and warrior and all Techs and Civics available against AI with a normal start.
All districts and military units like tanks would cost hundreds of production and would be out of reach for a long time. Only basic buildings like monument, granary and water mill would be available since their price does not inflate.
 
Build a builder (should be possible somehow), make 3 seaside resorts, win the game.
 
Well, you can't lose as all your cities have walls from turn one, so you can start with a builder or two (you also have five charges of course because policies), so you can improve your tiles rapidly, then you can start building Settlers VERY fast, expand very fast (gotta dodge eventual people you're at war with but once the city is down it's got walls), and you'll get to good production in quite a short amount of time, I would say, with mines giving +3 production and a triangle of farms giving 5f or 4f1p each. Not to mention eventual bonuses.

Additionally, you can chop three forests in your capital to get a commercial hub running and an extra trade route. Repeat for every city, and yeah, you're going to have quite a big advantage.

It's probably going to be very easy even though the game tells you you need several hundreds of turns to build a district when you put your first city down.
 
How do settler, builder and trader costs scale with your progress?
In my last game I noticed that traders became more and more expensive even when I did not build them (due to other priorities like building settlers first.)

Ok, found it in units.xml :

settler : COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES (20)
builder : COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES (4)
trader : COST_PROGRESSION_GAME_PROGRESS (400)
 
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This does sound like a fun thing to try.

You get to know where all the resources are as well, which is kinda handy.
Your warrior is upgradable once you get the gold (gonna take a while)
Building new units though, yeah, that's going to take some time.

I'd probably go for an encampment first just because of the policy to get 30% off on building it.

Hmm, I'm gonna take a look at this one. (been eyeing those 2 buttons in firetuner anyway).. <evil grin>
 
Sounds like a fun exercise. I think England would be the best for this. Could probably metastasize quickly with Pax. Then dump all resources into 3 rocket artillery No AI would be able to contest that map control. Starting out with walls and free melee pretty much makes your cities unassailable. If you yoink an enemy settler and plop cities down in their face hane or hasami style, I'd imagine the game is pretty much already over right there for that civ.
 
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Getting all the techs was easy, but the civics... it gave them, but I couldn't choose a government till next turn. Had to give gold to unlock.
Need to check that a bit.
Do techs on one turn, civics next?

Once you can build a modern unit, it's just silly though. (amusing , but silly)

Using the Deutschland mod, build that version of a ranger (who has ranged attack), that to batter down the city to zero, and the basic warrior took the cities.
(5 from America, who's now gone)

Have a hansa in my capital, 5 stone, 1 niter, 1 uranium. err.
Build times are now down into reasonable times for districts (odd)
Marathon too.

This on Deity, which I never play.

Going to try again, without that mod and see how the civics thing goes.
I don't want to give gold.

Oh, you get 38 envoys when you do the civics. (so a good couple CS nearby.... hmmm)
 
Just need to find a way to get the cash to upgrade your warrior to a mech inf, and it alone should be able to take out the entire world that you can reach.England would be the best getting free units on other continents. I guess you unfortunately wouldn't be able to build a siege tower as it would already be obsolete.

But yeah, otherwise since chopping I believe is related to tech progress, you'd have very strong chops, so would be able to quickly get down a lot of infrastructure by just chopping. And since you could just start in democracy, you get a lot of policy cards to use to develop.
 
I don't think civics should be part of the test. If I understand the point of OP , it's a true demonstration of the silliness of scaling cost. All techs zero civics is a better setup imho.
 
Ok, took that mod out, same thing.

So, I kept giving the 1000 culture until the first civic was completed, then it unlocked the rest (which were done, just couldn't use)
That let me change govs.

And yeah, jungle about, so made a builder, chopped, made a helicopter, conquer.

Only drawback is now all the stupid ruins are there.

Oh, and no land oil in sight! grrr.
(so what, I do have uranium == modern armor)

Goody hut, free recon, oh hai Ranger Bob. :D
 
I don't think civics should be part of the test. If I understand the point of OP , it's a true demonstration of the silliness of scaling cost. All techs zero civics is a better setup imho.

When I started the thread I did not consider that builders scale with number instead of progress. A builder scaling with progress would cost 500 production (instead of 50) which would be out of reach for many turns for the first city with unimproved tiles.
 
When I started the thread I did not consider that builders scale with number instead of progress. A builder scaling with progress would cost 500 production (instead of 50) which would be out of reach for many turns for the first city with unimproved tiles.

Actually, it doesn't take that many turns to get the first builder.
Don't forget the 30% production +2 charges card for builders.
Without that, yep, much much harder.
 
I don't think civics should be part of the test. If I understand the point of OP , it's a true demonstration of the silliness of scaling cost. All techs zero civics is a better setup imho.

If you're stretching that far, however, the only point you're making is your own silliness. You'd just be making a case exactly so that it looks as badly as possible.

But if you're doing it this way - it's going to be a lot harder because you lack walls, however, your city (I assume) will still have a high defense strength, and 30 strength difference = instakill, so no one would be able to assault you either way, allowing you to start with a builder. After that, you start working on a Commercial Hub and you chop three forests, thereby finishing it (remember, a chop always gives a third of the district cost). Next, you build a settler, put a second city down, and start building a builder in that city, while your first city continues with the next settler. Simply said, you just keep using the "chop three forests to build a district" tactic, while you don't need to build military units because your cities have high defense strength. If needed, you can even put some walls in there in between; if you rush walls from turn 1, you probably have them up in 10-15 turns (normal speed), so then you are guarateed safe.

Also, I don't know how Firetuner works, but I actually kinda wanna try it out, so can someone give me an initial save with all techs (but not civics) completed? With initial, I mean that I can still move both my settler and my warrior. Civ doesn't matter, though I'd prefer not France because France.
 
I don't know if you can get the techs without having a city.

Without the civics, the AI will out build you for units.
On a huge map, just the time to get there makes it difficult.
By the time you can ramp up production to get units fairly quick, they have a lot of stuff.
(rocket arty takes forever to build, and melee has to run in, smash walls, runaway, heal, repeat)


I'm going to restart again until I get a good capital spot (this one wasn't bad)

I'll post a save of that.
(I'm using CQUI, WonderTweaks and YnAMP. Turned off Deutschland as that one makes it too easy.
The ranger unit is crazy)

Germany can do it (getting the hansa up first is really helpful)
England could be interesting, since they get a free melee unit from cities on another continent.
(mech inf) So domination steamroller once you get going.

Forget about religous, you can't build the stuff fast enough.
Culture is a maybe, since you can build those.
(and with the civics, you can grab great people fairly quick)

Using the 4 GM card and dropping hansas everywhere, getting the GM/GE constantly was very good.
You don't get the 2 pt prophet card (it's not avail)
Stonehenge is possible with chopping.
 
If you're stretching that far, however, the only point you're making is your own silliness. You'd just be making a case exactly so that it looks as badly as possible.
Ok then I guess I should not be posting on this forum, Iguess I'm not smart enough
 
Ok then I guess I should not be posting on this forum, Iguess I'm not smart enough

I didn't say that. If you want to make a point about the scaling being out of line, then at least make it an honest point. A situation with all techs but no civics is never going to happen; even a situation with all techs and civics but 4000 BC with normal starting units is already never going to happen. That said, I still think I could beat it on Deity while I'm normally an Emperor player.
 
@historix69: You are absolutely right. It is just silly to increase the cost of production with technical and cultural progress. But there are also a lot of other threads with this topic.

And to your proposed scenario I would say it would be simple to win. All your cities have deadly defense from beginn or?
 
Regarding the progress-based inflationary cost increase for districts (1000%), buying tiles, etc. I wonder how long a player would survive if he would start in 4000 BC with a settler and warrior and all Techs and Civics available against AI with a normal start. All districts and military units like tanks would cost hundreds of production and would be out of reach for a long time. Only basic buildings like monument, granary and water mill would be available since their price does not inflate.

How do settler, builder and trader costs scale with your progress?
In my last game I noticed that traders became more and more expensive even when I did not build them (due to other priorities like building settlers first.)

Ok, found it in units.xml :

settler : COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES (20)
builder : COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES (4)
trader : COST_PROGRESSION_GAME_PROGRESS (400)

When I started the thread I did not consider that builders scale with number instead of progress. A builder scaling with progress would cost 500 production (instead of 50) which would be out of reach for many turns for the first city with unimproved tiles.

"Progress-based inflationary costs" is a design decision. (I didn't call it silly, at least not in this thread.) The same as the fact that you usually cannot go back and build low-tech units once you have tech for high-tech equipment researched. Design decisions usually have consequences. This fantasy-scenario is a test about the consequences.
Thinking about it, I imagined the picture of a modern scientist, working endlessly on a powerful military unit while he is slaughtered by a horde of barbarian warriors. (Which is probably wrong since the high defence value would protect him.)
I also did not consider that you have access to relative cheap builders and can chop most things in.(A desert start may still be a challenge.)

Some people like @Canadian Bluebeer seem to enjoy this scenario.
 
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Desert start means you walk out of it in your first few turns, I think.
 
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