Is military conquest too easy in civ?

[Dida]

Do you think the military victory conditions are too easy and it should be made harder in civ5?

ps: against current AIs.

 

[r_rolo1]

Against humans or against current AI?

 

[damnation]

other games have easier AI *cough*revolution*cough* what was that?

 

[Xellos-_^]

the answer depends on several factors. The Ai when researching tech tend to research a line of tech to the extreme. I had seen Ai bypass Assembly Lines and Industrialism and go research rocketry and not even have flight. Thier best units were rifleman and didn't even have calvary.

I think a smarter AI in what tech it research and what units it builts would go a long way in address any problems wars.

i would give defenders a bit more advantage by allowing cities and forts to built Arrow Tower that cause damage to units in surrounding squares.

 

[UWHabs]

It might be a bit easy, but all the conditions are "a bit easy" when you're playing at a level you usually win at.

If you're not in a tech lead, it's not easy.

 

[generalstaff]

I find it an easier route against the AI. With that said, I am too impatient for the Space Race and do not want to risk falling behind in tech due to pursuing a cultural victory.

I guess the ease of victory depends on patience, knowing the AI, and luck of the map, among other things.

 

[eastsidebagel]

It's a piece of cake on the lower levels, but I usually get beaten to it when I play higher than Monarch, so I think it's neither too easy nor too hard.

 

[Onionsoilder]

On standard maps, it is way to easy. One super-huge multi-continent maps, it's actually one of the hardest.

 

[bestbrian]

It becomes alot easier when you can routinely maintain a tech lead on the AI. This is usually a sign that you've mastered that difficulty and need to move up.

 

[PieceOfMind]

It becomes alot easier when you can routinely maintain a tech lead on the AI. This is usually a sign that you've mastered that difficulty and need to move up.

Again, I'm agreeing with you bestbrian. None of the victories are easy when you play a difficulty where you don't gain the tech edge so easily.

Someone else said conquest is harder on larger maps. I'd say usually it's actually easier the larger the map is, but it is far more tedious because the game will take forever. It could be made a lot more difficult on larger maps though if you are only using Normal or Quick speed, but IMO you should never use anything faster than Epic on Large or Huge maps.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Military victories are the hardest in civ. The mere act of beating one AI is usually pretty easy, but if you're playing a high difficulty you have to really understand the mechanics to not get backstabbed, and you have to have sufficient tech, production, or both.

It's not like it's super hard or something, but compared to culture, space, and ESPECIALLY diplomatic wins, military is more rigorous. You can win by capturing enough for 12-15 cities and just shooting to space/culture like nothing. For military, you will on occasion be forced to fight a large AI. For diplo, you don't even need the city count although it can help with UN MM gift abuse...

 

[Iranon]

I think this varies greatly with difficulty level. Up to Immortal Domination feels like the most natural victory condition to me, and with tight play I can usually get there before I'd be done with Space or late Cultural Victory (as opposed to 'get to liberalism asap, kill science for culture').

On Deity, I'm most comfortable with less warfare... play nice until an opportunity presents itself (military tech lead or stealing cities from under the nose of a war ally), get into a winning position by force and ride that to a civilian victory.

 

[bestbrian]

Wow, I'm two for two in getting PoM to agree with me. Guess I'm not as dumb (or drunk) as I thought (or can remember).

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I would like to see scalable difficulty levels in Civ5. There would still be standard levels of course, but maybe in a custom game there would be sliders for each difficulty of win.

You could adjust the difficulty level of a cultural win, for instance, while leaving the rest alone. If you're really good at Dom wins, you could bump up the slider and make it harder for yourself to win that way, (Or in my case, turn it waaaay down and make it easier.), but still leave Diplo, Space, etc. the same.

I don't have a complete understanding of the game mechanics, so this might just be a silly idea, but I think it could really add some interesting options to the game if it were workable.

 

[Elite]

I honestly think it's moderate(depending on what difficulty you play on) togh Military Conquest is easiest because it's the most basec of victories, build up a huge Army, go out meet ther civilizations, then shake their hand while readying knife to stab them in the back, complete and total Conquest i the most basic of Human victories won over anything, wether through sheer weight of numbers or superior technology.

 

[r_rolo1]

I would like to see scalable difficulty levels in Civ5. There would still be standard levels of course, but maybe in a custom game there would be sliders for each difficulty of win.

You could adjust the difficulty level of a cultural win, for instance, while leaving the rest alone. If you're really good at Dom wins, you could bump up the slider and make it harder for yourself to win that way, (Or in my case, turn it waaaay down and make it easier.), but still leave Diplo, Space, etc. the same.

I don't have a complete understanding of the game mechanics, so this might just be a silly idea, but I think it could really add some interesting options to the game if it were workable.

I do think that it is feasible in civ IV....

About topic: military style wins are much easier than other wins because of the crappiness of the AI in military strat being several orders of magnitude than the crappiness of the AI in other areas, IF.....

If you can isolate your foes in managable chunks for your war machine to chew . That is why military wins with a lot of civs and/or in higher levels are harder........

 

[bestbrian]

I would like to see scalable difficulty levels in Civ5. There would still be standard levels of course, but maybe in a custom game there would be sliders for each difficulty of win.

You could adjust the difficulty level of a cultural win, for instance, while leaving the rest alone. If you're really good at Dom wins, you could bump up the slider and make it harder for yourself to win that way, (Or in my case, turn it waaaay down and make it easier.), but still leave Diplo, Space, etc. the same.

I don't have a complete understanding of the game mechanics, so this might just be a silly idea, but I think it could really add some interesting options to the game if it were workable.

This isn't silly at all, and dovetails nicely with something I've always believed should be adjusted. Apparently, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong (like you guys need an invitation ), if you disable victory conditions the AI is not aware and doesn't adjust. So, if you disable everything but Conquest and Domination, the damn AI will still keep trying to get to Alpha Centauri, and won't adjust it's builds or tech path, accordingly. This is nuts, and not only gives the human a ridiculous advantage by being the only one aware of the parameters for victory, it also hampers the enjoyment of the game because anyone that's going to set victory conditions like that (like, I dunno, me?) would want the AI to be more challenging, and not more crippled.

I'm a little hungover, but does this make sense to anyone?

Don't worry, I'll be fine after I finish this pastrami. Ooooh, paaastraaami. (Okay, maybe I'm still more drunk than hungover).

 

[Skallagrimson]

I personally don't like the brute force approach Civ uses to add "difficulty" to the higher levels. I mean, 300% research and combat bonuses for the AI as the ONLY way to make the game more difficult? Come on.

Rather than raw bonuses all over the place, there should be differences in how CLEVER the AI get at the higher levels. And at the lower levels they should obviously make bad choices and do stupid things and leave themselves wide open for human exploitation. At the higher levels, give me Hal the Genius from 2001, who doesn't NEED raw bonuses to win, but simply... outsmarts me.

As it is right now, yes the military approach is the most optimal for the human, because the AI aren't clever in their war tactics (not even "improved").

 

[Xellos-_^]

it is not so much as tactic as in the AI tends to research a line of tech to the extreme that includes tech that are of absolutely no use to the AI at the moment. The basic tactic for both human and AI in military conquest is built a bi stack and roll over your opponent. Unfortounately for the AI, they are researching rocktry the human player is making a beeline for Assembly line (inf) and Industralism(tanks).

 

[Roller123]

Compared to other ways of winning? Definitely harder. Requires alot more clicking and thinking and preplanning. Other methods are winnable defensibly, or do not require anything specific. Just continue to build up up until "space" buildings. Build them, like any other building. Win. Also with other methods there is always a backup plan(namely conquering). But if losing conquest, youre also most probably losing vital territory, which negatively affects the entire future game. And losing relation points, for the same effect.