Is morality dependent on religion?

[Left]

Some think that in order to have a moral code, one must have some sort of religious beliefs. But others think that no religion is necessary to be moral.

From the Marriage thread:

I am one who tends to believe that morality ultimately stems from religion, not vice versa.

If morality stems from religion then before religion there was no morality, this is a suposition and highly questionable. Let's just say it's not logically consistant with the development of the first religions, because mother Earth, other nature religions and religions based on examining the issues of life and death are hard to find. And their beliefs are based on archeology and suposition. Did their societies devolop morale codes and laws against imorality before they had religion, seems likely since morality must of existed before we could talk, and in fact do exist in lower order mammals.

I believe that you do not need a religion to behave morally. I am not religious and I do behave in what I think is a moral fashion, not out of fear of the law, but because I beleve those actions to be moral.

EDIT: Added quotes to the post.

 

[warpus]

Of course not.

 

[Goblin Fanatic]

Myself, i've abandoned a religion because it conflicted with my personal morality.
I might be young and naive, but i feel that i would stick to my beliefs even if the said religion would prove to be 100% true and i'd be awaiting a terrible fate.

So for me it's not.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

One can have a system of morality based on cooperation and reciprocal altruism. Additionally, most early religions weren't concerned with morality at all in the traditional sense. However, religion can be a legitimate source of morals.

 

[Raisin Bran]

Defenatly NO! I have never been a religious person but I have a great deal of morality. I love helping others and I did not learn that with religion.

 

[Corlindale]

I pretty much agree with Sidhe on this one. Humanity developed basic concepts of morality early on, later religions took over some of these moral rules, while sometimes also adding something of their own(thou shalt not make craven images and such...) and attributed them to some deity, perhaps to better enforce them with the common people, (without an extensive system of "earthly" justice the concept of divine justice might have seemed convenient) or perhaps to gain power.

 

[Bill3000]

No, morals are independent from religon. Obviously you can have a system of morals based on a religon, but it's not neccessary and it's not how morals came to be.

 

[VoodooAce]

Its been my experience that religion has nothing to do with morality. Religious people are just as liketly to be lacking as the non-religious, and the non-religious are just as likely to have good morals as the religious.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Corlindale]

Hmm... forgot to answer the original question: No, I do not need religion to have a moral code.

 

[Masquerouge]

One can have a system of morality based on cooperation and reciprocal altruism. Additionally, most early religions weren't concerned with morality at all in the traditional sense. However, religion can be a legitimate source of morals.

What he said

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Not for me, but I think some people need to be afraid of a big bad god who will punish them if they don't behave like civilized people.
On the other hand religion is often an effective way to override morality (crusaders, suicide bombers...).

 

[MobBoss]

Of course all the athiests (of which OT has more than its fair share) will all say NO.

However, I simply point out that none of these athiests themselves have been raised in a religious vacum in any way, shape for form. They have been "tainted" if you will by religious morality despite their wailings to the contrary and as such, their own moral polestar set according to religious teachings notwithstanding.

It is simply impossible to say with full conviction that a person without religion will be moral, as there is simply no society on earth that isnt effected by religious morals to be found.

 

[MrCynical]

No, morality is older than religion, and composed from what benefits human society as a whole. Many religions have taken the earlier moral code that humanity has built up, and attributed it to their deity, but this is purely self serving, and many atheists have a perfectly good moral code. Religions also have a tendency to stick in a few additional "moral" rules of their own (most obviously that it is a mortal sin not to worship their deity specifically), for their own benefit. They attempt to sneak these in as part of a moral code, relying on clearly accepted rules like not killing and stealing to cover up an addition that had nothing to do with morality.

If you want moral codes then a religion is the last place to look. An atheist with a moral code bases in purely on the benefit of humanity, as it should be, not based on any self serving religious indoctrination.

 

[MobBoss]

No, morality is older than religion, and composed from what benefits human society as a whole.

Proof? Name any known ancient civilization that does not have a type of religion.

I daresay that there is far more proof that religion certainly predates any moral code we have today.

 

[Sidhe]

Of course all the athiests (of which OT has more than its fair share) will all say NO.

However, I simply point out that none of these athiests themselves have been raised in a religious vacum in any way, shape for form. They have been "tainted" if you will by religious morality despite their wailings to the contrary and as such, their own moral polestar set according to religious teachings notwithstanding.

It is simply impossible to say with full conviction that a person without religion will be moral, as there is simply no society on earth that isnt effected by religious morals to be found.

Dead end question I'm afraid? I metioned it before you can't make judgements based on that question because you have no basis or evidence to follow that belief. It is moribund.

Proof? Name any known ancient civilization that does not have a type of religion.

I daresay that there is far more proof that religion certainly predates any moral code we have today.

Pointless, simply your opinion and again devoid of any evidence.

 

[Masquerouge]

It is simply impossible to say with full conviction that a person without religion will be moral, as there is simply no society on earth that isnt effected by religious morals to be found.

But that does not imply that morals come from religion.

 

[MobBoss]

But that does not imply that morals come from religion.

Why not? The one single common denominator of all civilizations all throughout history all over the world is religion is it not? The old adage of "do unto others as they would do unto you" is a religious saying, not an athiest one.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Proof? Name any known ancient civilization that does not have a type of religion.

Who said anything about civilization? There were humans for thousands of years before civilization.

I am religious, and I honestly believe that I am a more moral person in part due to my religion. Not that I am acting entirely out of fear or even a desire to get good consequences, that's silly. My belief that we are all created in the image of God makes me want to treat people better. But if I were to wake up tomorrow with no memory of my religious beliefs, I would still have a system of morality.

 

[MobBoss]

Pointless, simply your opinion and again devoid of any evidence.

Once more, I ask for any evidence, scientific or otherwise, of any society, ANY society, throughout all of history that hasnt had a form of religion, that was a "moral athiest" society.

If you cant do it then just say you cant do it and move on.

 

[warpus]

It is simply impossible to say with full conviction that a person without religion will be moral, as there is simply no society on earth that isnt effected by religious morals to be found.

What would prevent such a person from being moral or from having a moral code?

That's what I want to know.