Is naval shore bombardment supposed to not have any effect?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by migkillertwo, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. migkillertwo

    migkillertwo Prince

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    In my last game on an earth type map, I invading germany from north of the Mediterranean. I had positioned a few of my missile cruisers and started bombing some panzers he had (he was building a space ship so I imagine it was just b/c he had no moneys to spend on upgrades). Lo and behold, when I bombarded these panzers, each bombardment only did one damage point. WTH? Considering that artillery could do 3 or even 4 damage, I'd expect that a missile cruiser could do at least 2, maybe 3 damage.
     
  2. CivFart

    CivFart Warlord

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    The navy is an extremely important part of your military. I think you have an unhealthy or even wrong view of the navy. A good navy can protect the city from invaders, it is almost essential in any invasions or landings in coastal cities or nearby cities.

    A navy could mean the difference between a huge invasion and no invasion at all. If your foe is to invade your land he obviously need to send units across the sea, if you have the proper naval ships in place that invasion can end in catastrophy for your foe.

    Having a good navy (especially destroyers) is vital in keeping enemy nuclear subs away. The destroyer is one of the most important, if not THE most important item in your navy, they have a good range of view, I recommend placing a few of these off your coast. Watch the fog how long they are able to see, make sure you place the destroyer so that it can "watch" all the way to the first tile of the coast, and the equal amount of length outside the coast on the other side. Spread destroyers so that each destroyer cover each other so that no tile is without watch.

    If you can cover 8 tiles or more from the first tile of the coastline you are able to find nuclear subs before they enter your territory. The nuclear missile can be launched 8 tiles away so thats just perfect.

    Speaking of naval bombardment having no effect, yes it does have great effect. Make sure you always construct your naval units in cities that give them free promotions. When you come to a specific amount of experience the naval units will get several promotions that will give them extra range, they will be able to fire extremely far inland, 4 or 5 tiles. There is also a promotion you can get one extra round of fire per unit-promotion. When you get to that promotion the ship will become extremely powerful, 100% more powerful.

    For shore bombardment I recommend that you have a battleship in place too, it has bigger naval bombardment firepower. The ultimate naval offense/defense would be to combine with a carrier and stealth bombers.

    Anyway, when you get the good promotions for your ships they will become tremendously useful and powerful.
     
  3. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

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    Missile cruiser ranged strength = 25 unpromoted.
    Artillery ranged strength = 32.
    Panzer strength = 60 + any promotions + terrain etc.
    Who knows, but I'd say 1 HP damage was fair and 3-4 from artillery was lucky.
    Bombardment is not the main intention of a missile cruiser.
     
  4. EasyGoin

    EasyGoin Chieftain

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    In my experience the naval units are an integral part of your military and offensive, but their capability trails off as you advance into the modern Era, where they are replaced by bombers and stealth bombers. The 32 Range attack from a battleship doesnt do jack to a double drill mech inf on a hill, even with significant promotions.

    They are fantastic for defending your cities against muskets, rifleman, and artillery if you can catch them near the coast, but once you start seeing armor, mech inf, rocket artillery, and modern armor, sub spotting is about the only role the navy plays. Oh, and squashing embarked units, the AI loves to embark full health units near the point of attack. Destroyers are sick for finding them.
     
  5. Zydor

    Zydor Emperor

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    A fully promoted Navy and taking all the bonuses etc from all sources can be devastating. A particularly nasty promotion is the +1 range - that will give the ship the ability to sit beyond City defences and pound it to oblivian and not be touched.

    A "vanilla" Navy that is created and used without focusing on promotions etc can be somewhat weak in terms of onshore bombardments etc. The concept of gain ing "experience" and "promotions" is a reasonable one.

    A Navy thats too powerful from the get go with long reach into land areas can be game breaking on Archipelago/Sea dominated maps. Its the old story, Balance is never easy to achieve as the Devil is always in the detail.

    Regards
    Zy
     
  6. CivFart

    CivFart Warlord

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    The bigger your navy is the smaller your needs for land units become. I've liberated an entire continent with the use of 1 modern armor at diety difficulty level. I simply cleared the way for the modern armor with my navy so that it didnt meet too much difficulties. If you reduce the size of your navy you have to increase the size of your land army.

    The good part of having a large navy is that when the invasion is finished you can move your navy to other parts of the world, that is harder to do with land units. Land units are defenceless at sea, navies are not.

    In my opinion it is better to have 1: Huge navy 2: Smaller land force than 1: Smaller navy 2: Bigger landforce.

    Airpower is also a branch of the navy. You can do much more with a large navy than with a large landforce. Navies can fight the invisible war too (nuke subs) they can fend off floating land units easily, and as mentioned above they can be moved quickly and easily, especially if you play england (2+ movement at sea) and have good promotions in place.

    In the same run you get more control over the world, you can control different parts of the world from sea, even if you dont own the land, you can still control it if it is neccesary.

    Another aspect is implementation of bloackades. The list goes on. The navy should work as something you use to soften down opposition, it is not intended for completing a war, it should be used to convert a strong enemy to a weak enemy, it should also be used to dominate territory.
     
  7. Varanid

    Varanid Warlord

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    they are buffing ship attacks vs cities next patch.
    I've found that, in the modern era, the navy doesn't tend to be so potent against cities, but it can still do some to help against units. But a battlehsip attacking a modern city with walls and a castle and a combat strength of 100+ doesn't do much at all.
     
  8. Gazurtoid

    Gazurtoid Chieftain

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    What building gives naval units promotions? I remember the dry dock in Civ 4 gave gave naval units bonuses but I don't see an equivalent building in Civ 5. The harbor gives a +25% production bonus and the seaport is for +2 hammers.
     
  9. CivFart

    CivFart Warlord

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    The Heroic Epic wonder gives morale promotion leading to 15% more combat strength for example and the Harbor like you mentioned are two of them. You get experience when you fight too, so the longer your unit survives the more likely it is to give more promotions.

    A key to have your ships survive is to make sure you're the one who engages battle first, that depends on visuals. Having destroyers with your task force is essential for spotting ships before they get in reach. It is also a wise choice to have missile cruisers for air defence and also jet fighters on a carrier for air sweep.

    Here is an example of a good task force that you can use when invading. It will most likely survive and wont take a punch. It has 3 carriers filled with jet fighters which will air sweep any incoming fighters or you could use it to airsweep a city. It also has 4 carriers with stealth bombers. 4 Missile cruisers for further air protection of the carriers, 2 destroyers on back and front for having full visuals and sub protection. You need a minimal land force for the invasion. Avvoid implementing battleship to task forces, it lowers the mobility as the battleship is slower.

     
  10. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

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    None.
    From which you can deduce that developers:
    1. Thought ships were already WAY too overpowered, or
    2. Never much liked water anyway, or
    3. Didn't want you to have even more of a naval advantage against the AI, or
    4. Forgot, or
    5. Missed it out in the rush to deliver in September, or
    6. Plan to sell it to you as DLC.
    Which do you reckon?

    Edit: Naval units "alone" promotions, natch, as Heroic Epic is broad brush.
     
  11. Ddude97

    Ddude97 King

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    7. All of the above :D
     
  12. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    I thought it wasn't possible to put stealth bombers on carriers, only normal bombers.
     
  13. Ddude97

    Ddude97 King

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    I thought so also, :confused:
     
  14. Varanid

    Varanid Warlord

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    harbors boost production but don't give a promotion to them.
    ships gain promotions so slowly that's bloody painful to get them past about level 3 too :-/
     
  15. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    You can put stealth bombers on carriers. Against an AI that can't get a plane into the air before 2196, three stealth bombers against a city is insanely powerful. :lol:
     

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