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Is not the unit supply cap a bit low ?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by SuperNoobCamper, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I think less than a month ago there was a thread about how the supply cap was always too high. I generally don't have issues with it and there are a couple wonders which provide a ton of supply (Terracotta and Great Wall)

    Also lol tall Rome
     
  2. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    right now i am playing morocan game. whatever but no conquest. i have progres/statecraft/industry/freedom and 11 cities maximaly developed. i have tons of coal/oil/aluminium absolutely useless, becouse my cap is 70. even with almost 70 pop capital(becouse of my founder religious tenet). i cant say, that i dont have enough units to defend my self or push back, but honestly i dont feel comfortable with this limitation. it's another bothering mechanic punishing you for development so brutally, that i am scared invent new technology. like that is not enough, that i infuriate every Ai, which refuse every diplomatic action by me. i dont really think, that it is necessary punish player more through war wearinnes in this matter, that crazy tech reductions are far enough. let it reduce production, maybe happines, but not a military cap.
     
  3. Emufarmers

    Emufarmers Chieftain

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    You don't feel comfortable with 70 units? Not only are you completely untouchable, that's probably enough to steamroll the entire world in one go, if you wish.
     
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  4. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Logistic-wise, 70 units is very little on a Huge map. I've often need about 100 to fight on three sides.
     
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    When not expliciting map size, we suppose it to be standard. 70 units in standard map is a reasonable number.

    Anyways, we've discussed this thoroughly. I could conquer the whole world with just 10 units if each civ I face can only have 10 units itself, and they aren't replaced as fast as I can kill them. Garrisons not considered. Players with a liking for more/fewer units could pick larger/smaller maps.

    The limit goes down with every tech, that's right, but it is usually made up with population growth (unless neglected) and more military buildings (ditto). In Info Era, that changes because there are no more military buildings, only ideologies, so army size is usually reduced, but OTOH, it gets high-tech.
    Also, I'm finding military wonders to be really useful with supply limit. +10 supply for one wonder (can't remember which one), and +1 supply to every city for another wonder, that aren't jokes.

    In all, I think players thinking about delaying techs (so supply limit doesn't fall for a while) is a positive thing. Otherwise, the strategy would be always pushing for science and trying to finish the game before 1800dC (thus missing whole game contents).
     
  6. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    exactly. now i need to fight with 5 civs. and as i said, i dont feel comfortable, because 3 of them are over watter, so i dont know from where i should expect naval invasion. but two another neighbours are hostile to me also. and because they are not willing for ceasefire( already fighting 20+ turns), my limit due to WW is crippled and my production also.


    To addition: I think it would be nice have WW just reducing your building production and food.
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    This you should address in the settling phase. I find it useful to have most my coastal cities in the same sea, so I only need to protect one or two locations with my fleet. I know it's tempting to settle where it gives more resources and keeping all conquered cities, but if said locations are not easily defensible, you should consider settling in another spot and destroying/selling the conquered cities.

    You have to stop your advance a while before this happens. If you couldn't get your objectives in time, plan better next time. It's ok to stop your war even if you didn't take any city (you killed some units at least). Now you can only play defensively and wait.
     
  8. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    impposibble. i set random ocean rifts and got one huge and scattered. for monopolies i had to settle more sides. btw. now im in war with 8 civs and im clearly unable defend all the lines. i can already forget to defend my cs allies( they conquered already 5 of them) and i am loosing votes :D. as moroco i lost half of my trait bonuses, begin be poor and cant aford improve units 1/1100-more gold. Now i should stop tech development :D funy feature.


    now i am again confused how WW works. for one turn mil. cap. reduction from WW dropped from 11 to 7. Next turn again 10.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  9. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    It sounds like you are pretty screwed. What did you do to end up in this situation? Attacked a liege with many vassals? Are you considered weak by the AI? Or maybe they think you are winning and just want to put you back with the crowd?
     
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Wouldn't a nation at war with basically the entire world have supply issues? If you get into a 5 front war it seems very reasonable to me that you get supply issues. What am I missing?
     
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  11. Jakman217

    Jakman217 Chieftain

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    I'd have to say the same with even 3. Getting into such a conflict seems like a bad idea anyway. And there's a reason why strategists say "Never have a war on two fronts." I've only rarely felt the supply cap as too low and usually, I can fix it myself (even without slowing tech down). And I'd also say most PC vs AI battles PC could win with half the units along one front.
     
  12. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Strategists say to never have a war on two fronts because food and production isn't exactly unified. You can't just tell your city to drop what they're doing and start mobilizing for a tank warfare when you were just building public schools for the city neither will you eat the same food all year and eternity because crop yields will always vary depending on the season and crop types.

    Players will always win versus AI. AI will always mass spam their weakest unit allowing players to rack up a ton of experience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  13. Jakman217

    Jakman217 Chieftain

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    I'm not seeing your point there and feel you missed the forest for the trees.
     
  14. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I feel the supply cap is too high especially when elite units replace conscripts. That's what we get for complaining we have too little supply, you have AI with a huger amount of supply instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  15. Jakman217

    Jakman217 Chieftain

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    Now that makes sense.
     
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  16. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    Ok? so i was at standard military cap. at 70+-. after 20+ turns of DEFENDING against 2 civs, it was -10. After those 20 turns more and more civs joining war against me, simply because im winning( great improvement to AI btw.... never saw this when it was runaway AI) NO ONE even have peace button in diplo. screen. im at -15 and i dont have any units, which can be considered as elite, because i played whole game diplomatic/culture game. those units, even a tech higher, will die, outflanked by zulus or whatever mad guy will get close with authority/imperialism. I choosed Freedom. Literally every other civ till now choose Order( for tourism penatly ofc or Freedom shouldnt be voted as world ideology, whatever). In my previous Sweden game i didnt have problem with cap at all. I aimed for Brandenburg gate, and got whatever bonus i could. in peacefull game, it is just bothering mechanic. I can't imagine play with this multiplayer game.
     
  17. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That's because the AIs don't pay other AIs to have you killed.
     
  18. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    interresting is, that in warmonger games, with warmonger diplo penatly over 500 and more( transparent diplomacy), where everyone hate you and would like see you dead, no one dare DoW you. In peacefull, where you have some competing for this and that, it ends far worse than being agrresor itself. little off topic now. Why there are so many stackable negative diplomatic modifiers, but we can get only +50 for liberating foreign people, + 16 for shared intriques, etc etc. I wanna be good guy, but those modifiers are quickly overwhelmed by being infuriated, me being competitor, few espionage and we are at - 60 etc etc. I want more stackable positive modifiers :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    black213 likes this.
  19. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    that had to be very cheap than. they are poor. but ye i got that, they have been paid for that. thats another point of discussion. Assyria, my neighbour and long term good friend, has betrayed me for few coins. With much weaker and undeveloped army, without chance of succes, without anger and hate against me. that is what i called year ago AI cooperation against human :D Gazebo denied it at all.
     
    SuperNoobCamper likes this.
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Are you surprised that you are having military trouble late-game while being pacifist all game?

    G
     

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