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Is oil useless in the information era?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by hardcore_gamer, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    One thing I don't like about Civ 5 is how each unit can only need 1 resource to be built. In civ 4 units could actually need more than just 1. For example, a WW2 era tank needed oil, while a modern tank needed both oil and aluminium. This meant that oil was still needed in the information era.

    But in Civ 5, modern units only need aluminium. Is there anything else to do with oil in the information era? Or does it just become worthless?

    I suggest a new building called "petrol generator" be added into the game that unlocks once you research combustion in the modern era. It would basically work like a watered-down nuclear plant, offering a production bonus and extra :hammers: with each building costing 1 oil.

    In this way, oil would still be useful in the end game.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    During the "Atomic Era" a lot of "lack of oil" crisis happened, especially during wartime but also after. The need for oil is probably done the way it is to reflect that. During the "Information Era", I have not heard so much about any oil crisis, but instead of special metals and other things and my guess is that "Aluminium" is there to be reflected on that change of "critical" raw material focus.

    And also, you still need oil for bombers and battleships.

    But I can agree that it would have been nice if the game been more flexible regarding this.
     
  3. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    Battleships become useless once you unlock carriers just like in real life, because the aircraft can simply bomb the battleships from a distance. And bombers become useless as well once you have stealth bombers.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think you still need oil for carriers. But carriers alone don't need that much oil so it's not really a problem if you have any oil at all.
     
  4. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim King

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    Hey now, battleships have one thing Missile Cruisers don't.

    Indirect Fire promotion.

    Okay so it's not much of a big deal, but it's something to consider!

    And besides, even though you don't use oil in the informaion era, having it in your territory still provides a good production.
     
  5. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    No, like missile cruisers and destroyers, carriers do not consume a resource. Your bombers get replaced by stealth bombers, and fighters by jets (both require aluminum). Tanks (oil) get replaced by modern armor (aluminum again) and then GDR (uranium).

    At the end game (and after that if you keep going), nothing but your leftover (and highly promoted) battleships are using oil. It is actually quite peculiar, since plenty of mechanized units would actually be burning oil. Aluminum and Uranium become the limiting resources.
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    The main things you still need Oil for in the Information era are:

    1. Fighters & Bombers (both don't upgrade to the Aluminum version until very late in the era. (So late that you will probably even win a space race victory before)

    2. Battleships unless you in masse scrap them since they don't upgrade to the generally more powerful Missile Cruiser.

    3. Potentially Tanks since Modern Armor is off most victory paths.

    It's actually not that difficult to get more Oil than you need after the city states reach the tech allowing Oil Rigs since so many city states are coastal.
     
  7. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

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    Bombers are the big thing that still need oil, unless something changed (not like I get Stealth every game) because stealth bombers can only be stationed in cities. On Pangaea, not a big deal, I guess, since you can keep a line of cities, but on most map types, you need to get over the oceans, and conquered cities often don't have the production to make high end units, so carries become important.

    On that note, costs can make a difference too. Missile carriers are great units, but sometimes you need that unit NOW, not next turn when you have the cash for something better.

    Some specific civs will likely want to keep using oil as well. I don't believe there are melee ships past the oil era, and though they end up weaker and less likely to capture, the Ottomans will want to keep a few destroyers around to get last hits on enemy ships. The American B-17 is almost as good as a stealth bomber, with the perks of a bomber. Germany may well find a place for their Panzers for the rest of the game, as units faster than gunships, upgradable by lightning warfare, they may be the single best city-taker in the game.

    The reasoning, I think, is gameplay. If you need iron all game, since even atomic era units are made of steel, a civ without iron is weak pretty much all game. It also creates constant conflict over resources. Maybe you had horse but not iron. You have to secure iron in some way, then, be it military, trade, or though CS allies. Then you get only offshore oil...do you wait or Attack Arabia who is sitting on a lot of it? Too bad they made the recycling centers to make sure everyone gets aluminum.

    Unfortunately, the AI doesn't covet your resources, and, thus, will sit in a position of weakness (or worse, give you gpt for iron, then declare war, leading him to a pitiful army), but the idea that different materials be used in different eras is a good one, particularly as the later game resources tend to be rare (coal is fairly widespread but rare enough, oil is very localized in mostly deserts and coastline, aluminum is often in bad spots and small quantities, and uranium is very rare) which can lead to even more conflict between the haves and the have nots.
     
  8. chrisbk88

    chrisbk88 Chieftain

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    Are you basing that second line off of real life too? Because there are only 21 stealth bombers on the planet, regular bombers sure aren't useless.
     
  9. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    Civ is an abstraction of reality. Even though most nations today aren't using stealth bombers, almost none of them are using WW2 era aircraft either.
     
  10. dasaard200

    dasaard200 Prince

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    BB's, artillery, and tanks to roll up coastal cities; artillery, tanks, and bombers to do cities; all to finish off AI's BEFORE anybody else can get nukes, is a damn good idea !!
    Oil acquisition, management, and use are, of course, a slippery subject; but it IS harder to win without it .
     
  11. Uzael36

    Uzael36 Prince

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    I really haven't been doing a lot of war lately, but when I used to warmonger, I definitely held onto my highly promoted battleships. Having 4 range, two attacks per turn battleships were very useful. Starting over with missile cruisers was not the way I went. I'd add a couple, but they did not replace my battleships either.

    Bombers are still needed to on carriers, though I would promote some to stealth bombers too.

    And since aluminum is also fairly scarce, you need to learn to use all your resources. You need to utilize oil, aluminum and uranium. None are useless.
     
  12. Walter R

    Walter R Great Engineer

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    Pretty much all of this (except I certainly do warmonger)
     
  13. Convict

    Convict Warlord

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    I think there is a case for the use of oil altering, or even becoming both, a strategic and luxury resource.

    Certainly it has a strategic use IRL but it is also used is so many other applications. Maybe even morph it to be required for trade routes.
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    The lux use of oil does not consume quantities like combustion engines do.

    I would actually like to see Mobile SAM and Mechanical Infantry each require oil. Maybe Destroyers and Missile Cruisers too. That would keep it relevant end-game.
     
  15. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    I am thinking about creating a mod which adds some new buildings into the game that keep resources important even in the end game.

    Is it possible to make it so that owning resources gives your unit a bonus? Like if I make it so that iron gives factories 1% production for each unit that you own, and you own 5 iron pieces then all your factories gain a 5% bonus?
     
  16. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim King

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    I've seen a mod for a Horse Race Track building that keeps horses relevant after Cavalry becomes dated. And so for Iron I believe there was a foundry building or something.
     
  17. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    More Buildings mod adds the industrial park, a building that consumes oil and increases production per pop. There are also mods that change the strategic resource requirements of late game units.
     
  18. b7fanatix

    b7fanatix Warlord

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    It's a must to upgrade Fighters to Jets, since prop planes don't do too well vs turbine aircraft in combat. Ditto Bombers -> Stealth Bombers, the extra range and survivability is invaluble. Tanks though are still useful i think, can still capture enemy units and make hit and run attacks, so once i've converted my airforce to Alu, the oil freed up goes to loads of tanks.
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    But at that point, as you describe, tanks could almost just as well be calvary. You prolly have the tech for modern armor, but it is the Alu shortage holding you back.
     
  20. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Armors use oil but moderns use aluminum.
     

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