Is Progress the Social Tree to start with always?

[Minh Le]

But whats the point of it? In the middle of the game Progress struggles from lack of culture much less then in the early game. But what is more important - what is your victory condition then? If you play Progress i suppose you want to have more than 5-6 cities (on standard), playing Tourism does not look like a good idea. And Artistry sure can't be better then Fealty in Science.

Sorry but I dont think so. In my experience, Artistry = Fealty in science. Fealty have more happiness, growth, better cities defense, good faith. Artistry have more culture and GPP. I find that artistry is strong when pursuit Science Victory just as much as Culture Victory. I only pick fealty as Progress when I play heavy faith Civ, or Im in serious need of happiness.

 

[bigcat88]

Tradition->Artistry->Rationalism
Authority->Fealty->Imperialism

Progress is only for civs who can connect cities very quickly(or for Babylon), or on maps with no barbarians.(or on high crowded maps, with a little space for barbs)

 

[Owlbebach]

Tradition->Artistry->Rationalism

Progress->Fealty->Rationalism with a science focused religion does science better

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I've been having lots of success with Progress with civs such as Rome, Japan, Incas, even when I'm playing against warmongering civs and/or when I'm playing very aggressively.

If you're faced with Authority civs and you manage to stand your ground, Progress will give you a big advantage compared to them in the later parts of the game.

 

[Minh Le]

Progress->Fealty->Rationalism with a science focused religion does science better

Why? Progress -> Artistry -> Rationalism doing just as good in science and I have more great people. I just tried both in my India games.

 

[CrazyG]

Progress->Fealty->Rationalism with a science focused religion does science better

Is progress's 3 science per city connection and extra for citizens (which is tiny by the end game) really putting out more than Tradition's bonuses? Tradition gets extra scientists, 10% science in the capital, 2 science per city with councils and herbalists, and a wonder which gives science.

 

[Gazebo]

People tend to ignore statecraft, it is a nice follower for tradition.

G

 

[Owlbebach]

Is progress's 3 science per city connection and extra for citizens (which is tiny by the end game) really putting out more than Tradition's bonuses? Tradition gets extra scientists, 10% science in the capital, 2 science per city with councils and herbalists, and a wonder which gives science.

No, from pure yield-from-policies point of view it is probably lower. But imo it is way better in term of overall infrastructure. With Tradition you are simply several buildings behind Progress by the middle of the game.

People tend to ignore statecraft, it is a nice follower for tradition.

Is it? In my opinion as a follow up for tradition it is definitely the worst of 3 medieval trees.

 

[CppMaster]

Really? Worse than Fealty?

 

[YukiN]

Do tradition civs other than Austria have enough hammers to control multiple city-states? The spies and %culture are really nice though.

 

[Owlbebach]

Really? Worse than Fealty?

Imo - yes. I can see Tradition into Fealty if you aim at some very heavy religion-focused game, or maybe Tradition into Science, may work with some civs

 

[Gokudo01]

People tend to ignore statecraft, it is a nice follower for tradition.

G

yeah I dont know why, even if you don't aim for diplomatic victory, you get so much from statecraft, even for an authority start.

 

[Owlbebach]

yeah I dont know why, even if you don't aim for diplomatic victory, you get so much from statecraft, even for an authority start.

Authority into Statecraft seems like a default option for me.

 

[ofmiciv5]

If vegan mode, Progress>Artistry>Rationalism>Order or Tradition>Statescraft>Rationalism>Freedom
For carnivorous players, Authority>Fealty/Artistry>Imperialism>Autocracy

 

[lunker]

Didn't know statecraft was underused. I find it quite hard to not take it in most games.

 

[neo_arcadia]

Didn't know statecraft was underused. I find it quite hard to not take it in most games.

I looooove its gold scaler and monopoly thingy. It is quite difficult to manage happiness with wide empire tho. When my empire is wide mercantile CS is the priority for that porcelain and jewelry happiness monopoly.

 

[hokath]

It's free yields on the opener go to the Capital as well, so they are affected by the Tradition %increases.

 

[CrazyG]

Statecraft is really good. I take it more often than I take Fealty.

 

[Owlbebach]

It's free yields on the opener go to the Capital as well, so they are affected by the Tradition %increases.

This is peanuts. You'll get maybe 10 or 15 extra yields (of all types together) total from that "synergy"

 

[CrazyG]

This is peanuts. You'll get maybe 10 or 15 extra yields (of all types together) total from that "synergy"

I just want yields in the capital because its my capital though. Even more production for wonders, even more food where I want it.

If you also have other effects giving % yields to the capital, like Divine Inheritance, baths, school of philosophy, or wonders, it becomes a really big deal. If I recall correctly, my last game as tradition had a 95% modifier to science in the capital.