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Is religion overrated in MP?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by A+ombomb, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. A+ombomb

    A+ombomb Actuary

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    I haven't really had civ4 that long, but from my current understanding of the game mechanics, religion doesn't really seem all that good, or at least not something that you need to immediately rush to, especially in MP. However, I have noticed that other players seem to always like to grab religions like hotcakes, as if they were just amazing. I would love to be enlightened as to why religion is so wonderful as a b-line tech choice over something like bronze working, so any input would be welcome, thanks.
     
  2. Tangram

    Tangram Chieftain

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    I'm still a newbie myself, but I suspect they're going for the financial and recon benefits of a holy city with a shrine. A shrine gives extra gold for every city with the shrine's religion, and lifts the fog of war in the nine tiles surrounding each of those cities. Grab Hinduism or Buddhism, build Stonehenge for an early Great Prophet, and you're off to a good start.
     
  3. Vindicator7

    Vindicator7 Chieftain

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    I used to do that as well. But the trouble is that if you miss out on Budhism, and Hinduism, and still try to streamline to a religion you could set yourself back from other players.

    And after getting a religion, you have to go out and spread it which sets you back even further. Then even if you spread it successfully, what do you get in return, maybe a extra 10-15 golds a turn. And in multiplay, religion has little affect on how other players feel about you. So I think it is better to just forget about religion and focus on other aspects of the game. At least in multiplayer.
     
  4. ackum

    ackum Chieftain

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    I am not a multiplayer expert by any stretch, but it seems to me the most useful function of religion would be its recon benefit to the founder of that religion, and so others will be concerned with trying to keep opposing religions out of their cities. That being said, I could see the value of grabbing as many religions as possible to keep them out of the hands of opponents, and also for getting to Theocracy quickly to keep other religions out of your cities. But given no human player is going to want an Open Border agreement with you for fear of religious spread, I don't see how you're going to make enough money off religions for it to matter much.
     
  5. WaxonWaxov

    WaxonWaxov Warlord

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    Well, here's my opinion:

    I try to get Polytheism (Hinduism) and Monotheism (Judisum) to start, then Theology (Christianity) and Code Of Laws (Confusionism)

    I then spread ALL my religions to ALL my cities.

    For every temple you have in a city, you get +1 Culture and +1 happy. So if you have three religions, that's +3 happy.

    Also, build those monastaries! They give you +2 Culture and +10% research, which is huge. Of course these benefits go away with the discovery of Scientific Method so I hold off on that tech for as long as I can. Of course you'll have Education and Astronomy before Scientific Method so I build all those Universities and Observatories so I don't miss the Monastary bonuses.

    In short, I don't think you can win a Tech race unless you get some Religions first.
     
  6. picus

    picus Chieftain

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    I view religion as one of the most important things in my MP games. The financial benefits alone make it worth the little research investment you need to make in the beginning of the game. As long as you are commited to spreading your religion it can be a game breaker in terms of $$$ and production (with priests) later on. Nevermind the added benefit of prophets from running a bunch of priests in a city. And as WaxonWaxov mentioned if you're really commited to the religion ride temples and more importantly monastaries are great buildings - the mandir/synagogue/mosque etc aren't bad either (50% culture and a possible +3 happiness).

    Just my take on it.
     
  7. Innawerkz

    Innawerkz I'm the other white meat.

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    You can't reap the 25% bonus to buildings that Organized Reliigon brings you without a Religion. Libraries 25% faster means techs that much faster. Barracks done faster means building experienced troops that much faster, etc...

    Waiting for some foreign religion to spread to you can work for you, but having a head start in the spread of faith through your lands is always better.

    Add this 'perk' to all the above mentioned ones and you have a solid reason why this is a viable strategy, IMHO.
     
  8. A+ombomb

    A+ombomb Actuary

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    I wasn't actually commenting on *never* getting a religion, my post was mostly directed towards those that b-line to it. I know about the mentioned benefits, but none are beneficial enough early on, and certainly not enough benefit to tech it instead of bronze first, aside from the fact that you might run out of religions to get at some point, but an enemy that went out of its way to stop you from getting any religion at all would be extremely easy to just run over with military.
     
  9. Astax

    Astax Prince

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    my most hated is when you start a team game with soem random people let's say 3vs3, I choose brozne working,a ntoehr guy chooses bronze working and you got a third moron choosign meditation.... and he won't switch no matter how much I curse him out :/
     
  10. zafyro

    zafyro Warlord

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    religion = culture spread + money + spying enemy borders. every religion gives out 5 culture in the founding city that´s a great border expansion.
     
  11. WaxonWaxov

    WaxonWaxov Warlord

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    Well, I guess that's another example of 'to each his own.' Personally, I go for Monothiesm and the techs that lead to it, THEN Bronze Working. This usually means I end up with Hinduism founded in my capitol, and Judism founded in City #2. By the time City #2 has produced a Settler, I've discovered Bronze working and my scout unit has uncovered enough of the surrounding map to show a copper deposit when BW is discovered and hence the location of City #3.


    That's interesting. How does that work? So you and person #2 as a team produce beakers towards inventing Bronze Working and #3 (the moron) is working on Meditation by himself?


    Another comment: I don't go for Meditation. I go for Polytheism and Monothiesm. That way I ususally have founded TWO religions, instead of one.

    Yet Another Comment: In my last game against the AI I founded Polythesim, Monothiesm, Christianity, Confucianism, and Islam. I had NO COPPER for the entire game. (had iron) and I won the space race... ages ahead of my opponents.
     
  12. wc3promet

    wc3promet Warlord

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    We have 2 Faction of Players here:

    1) Minority -> Multiplayer Gamers (I'm in this)

    2) Majority -> Noble/Prince/Monarch/Deity Mode Gamers aka Single Player

    Religion isn't all that useless, okay maybe it's not that useful in the beginning.

    Here's some brief information of what you need to know abt Religion in Civ4:

    1) Rushing to grab early religions leaves you vulnerable to the Early Rushes. Try playing ladder games on Gamespy and you will understand.

    2) Religion forms an important branch of the tech tree. For example, along the branch leading to building Tanks, you need to research Theology which is a religious tech.

    3) As the founding nation of a Religion X, any enemy city that has the Religion X will be revealed to you.

    4) Religion generates Happiness and Income.

    5) Religion speeds up Production and trains new units with additional experience leading to earlier promotions.
     
  13. wc3promet

    wc3promet Warlord

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    Astax,

    Avoid team games unless you don't mind losing, especially those with Randomized Leaders and Civilizations.

    For example, Genghis Khan doesn't synergise/coordinate well with Julius Caesar.

    Genghis Khan goes for Horseback Riding and Julius Caesar goes for Iron Working, resulting in an inefficient Research point usage.
     
  14. wc3promet

    wc3promet Warlord

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    A+ombomb,
    Just in case you're confused, the above comment deals with Single Player Vs AI Players and not multiplayer.

    Of course, I enjoy having neighbours founding early religions, the more the merrier, so that I can take it away from them in another 20 turns.
     
  15. Jantis

    Jantis Chieftain

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    I fall into a third faction, which is those that immensely enjoy both multiplayer and single player. I believe a lot of folks fall into this category (all my friends do, anyway), but that's just from my observation.
     
  16. WaxonWaxov

    WaxonWaxov Warlord

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    I would probably be a multiplayer now if it were not for....

    1) I never played Civ 3 (played Civ 2 from the day it was published to the day I got Civ 4) So I'm a little handicapped in some of the strategy a lot of you have from years of Multiplayer Civ 3.

    2)I hate Gamespy

    3)The mutiplayer interface doesn't want to work right on my machine.
     
  17. Jantis

    Jantis Chieftain

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    WW,

    1) For what it's worth, I'm not a Civ3 veteran. I played Civ and Civ2, but skipped Civ3 (busy time in my life). So I don't have that going for me either.

    2) I also generally dislike using services like Gamespy. Never cared for random matching services. We've got a gaming group from the last 5-6 years, and we slowly get no folks in from time to time. Those services certainly have their benefit, but they just aren't for me most of the time. I will jump on every blue moon, but it's rare. Most of the time I play with folks I know.

    3) We use Hamachi to simulate LAN connection and with a few exceptions it works like a charm. If you're ever interested in trying out multiplayer, let me know. We start new games all the time based on who is around to play and what they feel like doing.
     
  18. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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  19. Astax

    Astax Prince

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    Yeah that's how it works. I usually dont play with pickup people, mostly to avoid people who start research masonry because they have stone outside their starting city radius, I mean omg :/ Thnx to beaker overflow there is really no reason to research multiple techs at once on a team. If you team with computer atleast you can tell em to switch research and they'll listen, altough that in itself is a pain mostly because the diplo screen only gives you 2 options and let's talk about something esle, really annoying :/
     
  20. Astax

    Astax Prince

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