Is Religion worth bothering with?

[Dunk_On_U1]

I just got BNW, and before that have only played through maybe 2 games of G&K, in one of which I played the Celts. I noticed that a lot of the pantheons/beliefs/religious buildings etc... actually just give you more Faith, which you can then use to enhance your Religion or buy something that will give you more Faith--my point being Faith seems to be a sort of cyclic process of spending Faith to gain Faith, which has me questioning it's value.

The question is if the rewards from Faith are worth the investment. Some things like the 'Just War' belief seem to be strong, but many look relatively quite weak, and can be gained via other means.

I do suppose Faith is an efficient way to buy units, if nothing else.

Looking to get the thoughts of those with more experience with the Religion system on how worthy it is for both Civs that have a Religion focus and those who do not.

 

[InspCallahan]

In the Industrial Era onwards, faith can be used to buy great people. Having a decent faith production can be nice, earning you a few great scientists or engineers, but I would largely say it's not what you should be focused on.

 

[Abraxis]

The benefit of the celts, specifically, is they can found a religion without needing to rely on the faith generating pantheons, a lot of these pantheons are actually really good too, as i'm pretty sure they're balanced with the thought of being lost around early-mid game upon having a religion spread to you.

 

[Halcyan2]

Yes, because the AI always chooses crappy beliefs for its religion.

If the AI consistently created good religions, then I'd be fine with ignoring religion and accepting the AI religion. But since the AI chooses terrible options, you are best off making your own religion (which will be way better than anything the AI comes up with).

 

[Abraxis]

Yes, because the AI always chooses crappy beliefs for its religion.

If the AI consistently created good religions, then I'd be fine with ignoring religion and accepting the AI religion. But since the AI chooses terrible options, you are best off making your own religion (which will be way better than anything the AI comes up with).

What universal standard are you using to measure quality here?

It's all about relativity, who cares if you've brought in a mediocre religion, potential doesn't matter. Advantage and disadvantage against other civs are what's important.
If you don't found a religion, yes you'll probably eventually get one with poor synergy, but so will everyone else, leaving you at neither an advantage or disadvantage.
Had you created one, it would be in your best interest to spread it anyways, mitigating any advantage you have on other civs by having a well conceived religion vs a poorly crafted one.
In either scenario you're sitting at parity, or near parity, in so far as synergy within the tenets of your adopted faith are concerned.

The benefits of creating your own (so far as the abilities are concerned) are control and creating synergy with your nations goals and abilities. Not quality and synergy within the religion's ideas measured against the optimal combination from within the pool of possible benefits.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

You can almost always found a religion as long as you have a faith pantheon, at least up to Immortal. If I create a religion with Tithe, Divine Inspiration, Religious Art, and Messiah/Religious Text I have no business spreading it. As it happens, the AI never takes any of these beliefs yet this setup is also my favorite.

 

[Abraxis]

map size : number of civs.
If that ratio is high enough, it can cost you quite a lot to try and rush a religion before others, often more than its worth. Difficulty has a lesser impact.

 

[azholichp]

On immortal or lower, religion is definitely worth it because you can quite safely keep and spread your religion. However, on deity, I don't even bother with founding a religion unless I get religious mountains or start on desert with desert folklore. On deity, the pressure of AI's religion is too high and I can't stop AI's endless great prophet invasion. If I can found the religion for the 4th or last spot, I would rather plant that prophet so that I can get religion points for buying religious buildings that I get from foreign religion or buy a great engineer with religious point in industrial era.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I vote yes on Immortal and below, probably on Deity -- only probably because on Deity, it's hard to hold onto your Pantheon and you often won't get a religion. Still, you want to hit 1000 faith for that great person, so building shrines/temples should happen.

 

[kb27787]

srsly now isn't +15% growth and +2 faith per world wonder worth it? (assuming worst case just in your holy city while your satellites are all converted to something else)
I do just fine with not spreading my religion and just using the bonuses for my capitol.

 

[reddishrecue]

No, not really. I doubt that you have to get a religion every time. In religion, faith is all that matters. Having a religion can sometimes give you more faith.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

its seems to me that the pantheon is worth it 99% of the time, any difficulty.
If my pantheon generate extra faith, I will fight to keep it. Otherwise? I tend to care a little less.

If I see there are two or three religions founded early and nearby before I get mine, I usually stop caring and go with the flow. Sometimes I will still get one, sometimes not. Again, if I am the only faith based pantheon in the area, i want to keep that.

One of the best cases is when three religions sweep through your land and you get to build three different religious buildings in each city. Thats a lot of extra .

 

[budweiser]

On immortal, I often don't go for a pantheon at all un less I am going to put the effort in to get a whole religion. I don't see the value of getting a later pantheon only to have it over written 50 turns later. Decent FPT in your empire can be more important than founding in most cases. If you found one, you should probably take Piety anyway.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

On immortal or lower, religion is definitely worth it because you can quite safely keep and spread your religion. However, on deity, I don't even bother with founding a religion unless I get religious mountains or start on desert with desert folklore. On deity, the pressure of AI's religion is too high and I can't stop AI's endless great prophet invasion. If I can found the religion for the 4th or last spot, I would rather plant that prophet so that I can get religion points for buying religious buildings that I get from foreign religion or buy a great engineer with religious point in industrial era.

Afaik Deity AI doesn't directly get a direct bonus in any of the religious stuff and seems that way because they start with extra cities and techs and production. While pressure can be a problem, prophet/missionary spam can be stopped with just one or two standing Inquisitors.

 

[Carl5872]

Tithe Baby!!

1 gold per 4 followers is really nice! Unlike with trade routes you don't lose the income if you DOW someone. Nothing like having all 8 trade routes pillaged in a chain DOW. Tithe provides a nice boost to income this way.

Also if you go down piety for religious buildings (i think thats what its called. The one where you get tourism for each religious building) does wonders for tourism. And since each religios building adds more faith, the power snowballs. When adding in tourism modifiers its easy to win a culture victory, or even if not going for culture win, it puts some heavy pressure on ideology differences.

 

[budweiser]

Theocracy - more gold if your city has a temple. More gold is very useful for all strategies. It can be killer when combined with patronage. Advantage Poland.

 

[Vitruvius]

Pantheon is always worth it especially since fall patch. God king is always available even if there are no other faith pantheons.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[ObadiahtheSlim]

On higher difficulties, it may not be worth it to focus on founding a religion and keeping it. It's always worth while to at least get a faith producing pantheon and amassing faith for late game Great People.

In fact, on higher difficulty, it can be worthwhile to accept someone else's religion, particularly if they are one to spam missionaries. That way you get the shared religion bonus for culture victory and the extra opinion modifier.

 

[Resipsa]

Its hard to say without specifying what difficulty you are playing and what type of starting dirt you have.

 

[azholichp]

Afaik Deity AI doesn't directly get a direct bonus in any of the religious stuff and seems that way because they start with extra cities and techs and production. While pressure can be a problem, prophet/missionary spam can be stopped with just one or two standing Inquisitors.

Two inquisitors are too expensive for me to be an option. Using military units or workers is not an option for me either because I want to keep efficient number of units. They either need to be fighting the war or working on tiles. On deity, you just can't compete with the Civ that founds the religion fast, goes to Piety, or builds religious world wonders. Even if somehow you indeed keep your religion and spread it to some extent, it is not that rewarding.