Is Rhye a Catholic?

[G-Max]

I play on hard difficulties

And whose fault is that?

Anyway, after a little glitch that required me to uninstall and reinstall the game and then redo all of my work from scratch, the challenge has reached its first prototype and is ready for your use.

 

[killerkebab]

Why the hell would I do THAT? I'm talking about making Rome LESS important

That wasn't my point :/

I imagine that it would save me the trouble of launching that 1250 A.D. naval invasion from Carthage to Rome. Doesn't sound terribly significant.

It does if it is something you no longer need to worry about at all
Maybe you're just a much better player than I am.

I'm not advocating that Rome itself be moved.

You're advocating that the holy city be moved away from Rome, and what I am saying is I believe the early spread of Christianity is only due to the holy city's proximity, not necessarily Rome's. Making the holy city a non-European settlement will curb this spread imo

Adding more? Who the hell was talking about adding more?

Why you were
In fact, you even went and did it

Damn, I just checked, and you're right. I was confused because by the time I'd actually get in on the action, Christianity had already spread to those cities. This, then, raises a new question: If these cities used to be part of the Roman Empire, and the official religion of the Roman Empire was Christianity, then why the hell don't these cities start out with Christianity?

I might end up making that altered scenario after all.

I think historically whilst Christianity was backed by the Roman Empire in its decline, the religion wasn't "widespread" at the time, which might explain why big important cities like Rome, Athens and Constantinople are the only ones which start with it.

EDIT: Well, after an hour and 15 minutes, I finished my first test run of my "fixed" scenario. However, I encountered the weirdest damned bug. I added two Indie cities to Spain (Cathago Nova and Cadiz) (thanks for the idea, killerkebab!), and for reasons that I can't fathom, each one spawns with its own Great Wall! Upon examining the code, it turns out that I was using "BUILDING_WALL" when I was supposed to be using "BUILDING_WALLS". Go figure

Anyway, I've patched up the code and will be uploading shortly.

Remember that while adding the indie cities is great (I've added a few of my own) it does mean that every time you play a game Spain will look exactly the same. You might like that or you might not

I'm looking forward to seeing your code.

 

[G-Max]

Why you were
In fact, you even went and did it

No, I wasn't. I only did it because you gave me the idea.

I think historically whilst Christianity was backed by the Roman Empire in its decline, the religion wasn't "widespread" at the time, which might explain why big important cities like Rome, Athens and Constantinople are the only ones which start with it.

Actually, the fact that it had become so widespread was what prompted the conversion. One of my Christian friends learned this a few years ago and relayed the information to me.

Remember that while adding the indie cities is great (I've added a few of my own) it does mean that every time you play a game Spain will look exactly the same. You might like that or you might not

Actually, I deleted Cadiz. I decided that a better way of balancing the map was to make Jerusalem, not Spain, a tougher nut to crack. I kept Carthago Nova because believe it or not, it's still a pretty major city in the region. The Spanish call it Cartagena, and it has a population of over 200,000.

Where Spain places its settlers is as variable as ever.

 

[civ_king]

No, I wasn't. I only did it because you gave me the idea.



Actually, the fact that it had become so widespread was what prompted the conversion. One of my Christian friends learned this a few years ago and relayed the information to me.



Actually, I deleted Cadiz. I decided that a better way of balancing the map was to make Jerusalem, not Spain, a tougher nut to crack. I kept Carthago Nova because believe it or not, it's still a pretty major city in the region. The Spanish call it Cartagena, and it has a population of over 200,000.

Where Spain places its settlers is as variable as ever.

Yeah with its dominating 10% which was mostly confined to urban centres and trade routes

 

[deanej]

A note on the Arabian UHV: the first condition requires controlling SHRINES not holy cities. In 600 AD this is very easy due to Jerusalem. Does taking Rome halt the spread of Christianity so the percentage goal is easier?

 

[civ_king]

A note on the Arabian UHV: the first condition requires controlling SHRINES not holy cities. In 600 AD this is very easy due to Jerusalem. Does taking Rome halt the spread of Christianity so the percentage goal is easier?

yes, it seriously reduces the spread of Christianity and allows you to spread Islam to Europe

 

[G-Max]

A note on the Arabian UHV: the first condition requires controlling SHRINES not holy cities. In 600 AD this is very easy due to Jerusalem.

LOL, everyone was attacking Rome for no reason...

yes, it seriously reduces the spread of Christianity and allows you to spread Islam to Europe

Okay, I've been meaning to ask this for a while... How does the presence of Christianity increase a city's resistance to Islamic missionaries?

 

[deanej]

Two reasons:
1. Each religion in a city makes it less likely that a mission to spread the religion will succeed (it's only guaranteed for a city that has no religion)
2. A 1 pop city with just Islam and a two pop city with both Islam and Christianity yield the same percent influence. If you want to get the percent influence up, it's in your best interests to keep other religions from spreading. I've always had problems with the Arabian UHV because of Christianity's unchecked spread, requiring more cities have Islam.

 

[G-Max]

Two reasons:
1. Each religion in a city makes it less likely that a mission to spread the religion will succeed (it's only guaranteed for a city that has no religion)
2. A 1 pop city with just Islam and a two pop city with both Islam and Christianity yield the same percent influence. If you want to get the percent influence up, it's in your best interests to keep other religions from spreading. I've always had problems with the Arabian UHV because of Christianity's unchecked spread, requiring more cities have Islam.

Wow. It's amazing how much stuff they don't tell you in the manual.

 

[civ_king]

A

Wow. It's amazing how much stuff they don't tell you in the manual.

Actually I'm pretty sure it was

 

[deanej]

It probably wasn't, but who can blame Firaxis for it? Outside of RFC, that screen is just for fun and doesn't affect gameplay.

EDIT: Unless you mean the missionary spread part, which I'm pretty sure is in.

 

[killerkebab]

Missionary success/failure rate factors are in the manual. How the game calculates religion percentages based on presence in cities and pop numbers isn't - nor should it be, that sort of information belongs in a strategy guide imo

 

[TDK]

Damn, I just checked, and you're right. I was confused because by the time I'd actually get in on the action, Christianity had already spread to those cities. This, then, raises a new question: If these cities used to be part of the Roman Empire, and the official religion of the Roman Empire was Christianity, then why the hell don't these cities start out with Christianity?

I might end up making that altered scenario after all.

If anywhere, Christianity should have a wider spread in the Middle East then, not Europe. Middle East was the center of Christianity until Islam.

The reason Jerusalem can't be holy city and ME not christian is because Arabs would then adopt Christianity and Turks as well. To avoid this, Rhye also coded the Byzantines to have zero percent chance of auto-spreading Christianity in their cities.

Rhye, in essence, sacrificed accuracy in the first few turns of the 600AD, to gain accuracy in the rest of the game. A good trade off.

 

[Baldyr]

If I were to play the Devil's advocate, I could claim that it would have made more sense to script it so that the Arabs and the Turks always choose Islam as their state religion. Sure, then you'd lose the possibility of an alternate historical path, but since we're talking trade-offs...

Who wants a Christian Arabia/Turkey anyway? More than once? Really? Well, even the anomalies could be scripted with a random parameter... (Something like number of Christian cities in 100 to adopt Christianity - otherwise its Islam. The chance of a Christian Middle-East would still never be more than, say 25%. You could subtract the number of Muslim cities though, so the chance would at most be 10%.)

 

[Llama231]

My Turkeys are always Christian it seems, is this just because of Constantinople?

 

[Leoreth]

Some people don't like too much scripting ... it feels more natural when Turkey adopts Christianity because its their dominant religion, not because some script told them to.

 

[deanej]

My Turkeys are always Christian it seems, is this just because of Constantinople?

Likely. Christianity is scripted to not spread withing the Byzantine Empire, but since the Byzantines are a minor civ, Islam won't spread either. And since Turkey won't open their border unless friendly, they won't get Islam unless they conqueror some Arab cities. In my current game as Arabia I'm conquering some Byzantine cities just so Turkey will get Islam when they flip.

 

[Baldyr]

So a little scripting really couldn't hurt then, could it?

 

[G-Max]

I'm noticing the same issue in my 600AD "fixed" prototype. The Arabs always start out with Islam as their state religion, but eventually flip to Christianity. I'll probably adjust this by simply removing Christianity from all those other Byzantine cities, but I'll leave the CHC in Jerusalem. Let's see what that does.

 

[Jusos2108]

Update to the latest patch before complaining about these things! The latest patch is 1.187. Judging from the screenshot you displayed in another thread, I believe you are playing something like 1.181 (like Wessel said). I have never seen Arabs adopting Christianity in the latest patch!