Is social security just a massive version of Madoff's ponzi Scheme?

[Archbob]

So, the recent Ponzi $50 billion scheme brought this up in my mind.

Now, before you liberals start shouting, these two things have key parts in common, except S.S. is much bigger and government funded.

1. Both are not solvent and eventually go bankrupt if there are not enough new investors(S.S. is going to go into the red in around 2013, medicare has been in the red since the earlt 90's).

2. Both use current investor's money to pay off former investors.

 

[Godwynn]

So, the recent Ponzi $50 billion scheme brought this up in my mind.

Now, before you liberals start shouting, these two things have key parts in common, except S.S. is much bigger and government funded.

1. Both are not solvent and eventually go bankrupt if there are not enough new investors(S.S. is going to go into the red in around 2013, medicare has been in the red since the earlt 90's).

2. Both use current investor's money to pay off former investors.

3. Both can raise taxes in order to get more fundi... oh wait.

 

[innonimatu]

Ah, the curse of economics, seeing live as some for-profit endeavor, strikes again...

1. Both are not solvent and eventually go bankrupt if there are not enough new investors(S.S. is going to go into the red in around 2013, medicare has been in the red since the earlt 90's).

And the sun will eventually go dark... That proves what?

2. Both use current investor's money to pay off former investors.

No one invests in social security, just like no one invests in taxes. People pay social security for the sake of supporting those elements of society who need support. Which is something probably beyond your understanding, mr. Scrooge.

You want to invest? Invest in one of those wonderful private pension plans, you know, the ones now losing over half their value.

 

[Archbob]

Ah, the curse of economics, seeing live as some for-profit endeavor, strikes again...



And the sun will eventually go dark... That proves what?



No one invests in social security, just like no one invests in taxes. People pay social security for the sake of supporting those elements of society who need support. Which is something probably beyond your understanding, mr. Scrooge.

You want to invest? Invest in one of those wonderful private pension plans, you know, the ones now losing over half their value.

The sun will eventually go dark in about 40 years when S.S. and medicare run out of money.

No, you invest in social security. Taxes are an investment in your country and future basically. Basically the government with-holds 15% of your income from you in return for some money later. Unfortunately, since its not solvent, much of that money from people investing in it now, will never be seen or be seen in a decreased degree.

No, people pay for S.S. because the government forces them to.

 

[emzie]

SS has the ability to raise the revenue they take, add more people to the roll (immigration) and bump up the retirement age.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Taxes are not an investment. They are the price of government and the things it does for you (defense, transportation, education, healthcare for some, and holding back some of your money because people are shortsighted as a rule and that's bad for their pocketbooks and the economy in the long run).

 

[Cutlass]

SS is a very small amount away from being permanently solvent. As has been said in this section many, many, and even many, times.

 

[Archbob]

S.S. is mainly there because politicians needs crap to fund their own crappy projects, thats why its the ultimate slush fund.

 

[Archbob]

SS is a very small amount away from being permanently solvent. As has been said in this section many, many, and even many, times.

That is a very false premise. Many studies show it going into the red between 2013-2020 or so and never coming out. Medicare is already deeply in the red.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2008-01-16-boomer-future-benefits_N.htm

We owe something like $70 trillion dollars to the retiring generation of baby boomers. There's not enough money in all the world's markets to pay for that.

Now, I will admit that medicare is about $60 trillion or that $70 trillion.

The only ways to make it solvent are to raise taxes or to reduce benefits/bump up retirement age. Both of which would mean you get less out for every dollar you put in.

 

[Cutlass]

Medicare is a fiasco. SS is not. A very small tax increase or increase in retirement age will make SS permanently solvent. The medical side is a fiasco partly because of the high inflation of health care and partly because of the Republicans Welfare for Big Pharma of a couple years ago.

 

[jessiecat]

Only some kind of twisted American economic mentality could equate the provision of health or social services through tax revenue with a deliberate pyramid-type ripoff scam by a crooked businessman. It would be pathetic if it weren't so f...ing hilarious.

 

[Archbob]

Only some kind of twisted American economic mentality could equate the provision of health or social services through tax revenue with a deliberate pyramid-type ripoff scam by a crooked businessman. It would be pathetic if it weren't so f...ing hilarious.

Your completely forgetting that S.S. is mainly a way for politicians to take people's money so they can make their slush fund bigger for them to borrow money from to fund bridges to nowhere.

 

[Cutlass]

That has nothing to do with why SS was created

 

[jessiecat]

Your completely forgetting that S.S. is mainly a way for politicians to take people's money so they can make their slush fund bigger for them to borrow money from to fund bridges to nowhere.

Or to finance the black helicopters or enrich the giant lizards. Sure, sure pal. Still taking the medication?

 

[Fëanor]

We all know that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme invented by Hitler to fund the rearmament of Germany, He never intended to pay it out and was never meant to work beyond the couple of years before Germany was fully rearmed!

Tinfoil hats and Godwin's Law, is there any better combinations?

 

[Archbob]

Or to finance the black helicopters or enrich the giant lizards. Sure, sure pal. Still taking the medication?

Are you denying that its a giant slush fund and you are completely unaware of politicians "borrowing" from it without any intention of ever paying it back?

 

[Godwynn]

Are you denying that its a giant slush fund and you are completely unaware of politicians "borrowing" from it without any intention of ever paying it back?

That sounds more like a problem of politicians, and not Social Security.

 

[Archbob]

That sounds more like a problem of politicians, and not Social Security.

Probably, but they are the ones who create things like social security.

I figure it'll be a decent system for 20-30 years, and then we'll see money shortfall problems. No one will want to increase taxes to support it so that leaves the option of bumping up retirement age or reducing benefits.

Personally, I prefer people just take that 15% of their income back and invest it themselves.

You can say all you want about the retirement funds losing 50% within the last year, but most of my parent's generation went to work around 1980.

How has the stock market fared since then? The DOW was around 800 at that time. Long-term wise, individual investment plans beat something like S.S.

 

[Merkinball]

You want to invest? Invest in one of those wonderful private pension plans, you know, the ones now losing over half their value - Innon

.

Hmmmm... I could do that, but I'm forced to pay for social security. So much for my dream of retiring before the social security office tells me to.

 

[Godwynn]

Probably, but they are the ones who create things like social security.

I figure it'll be a decent system for 20-30 years, and then we'll see money shortfall problems. No one will want to increase taxes to support it so that leaves the option of bumping up retirement age or reducing benefits.

Personally, I prefer people just take that 15% of their income back and invest it themselves.

You can say all you want about the retirement funds losing 50% within the last year, but most of my parent's generation went to work around 1980.

How has the stock market fared since then? The DOW was around 800 at that time. Long-term wise, individual investment plans beat something like S.S.

I'm with you, I support individual retirement plans (as a Finance guy, how can I not? ) But, the problem I see with Social Security is more with politicians filling it with I.O.U.'s instead of the Social Security in and of itself. If it was not being raided, I figure it would be a halfway decent system.