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Is tall Progress viable?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by GodDamnItAlexander, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. GodDamnItAlexander

    GodDamnItAlexander Warlord

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    Every time I try it I always find myself way behind everyone else.
     
  2. DarkZero

    DarkZero Warlord

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    What does this even mean?
    Progress benefits from producing buildings,new techs and capital citizens, tall cities have more production and thus generally build more buildings, generating more science.
    Depending on the difficulty the bonuses the ai gets make it impossible for players to get ahead in the beginning of the game.
    Now if what you mean is if progress viable whit a low amount of cities, them the answer is yes, but tradition is better, i am sure someone will post how they beat deity whit single city progress.
    Whats happening right now is that progress power wise is in the last place so even under optional circumstances progress is on the weak side.
     
  3. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    Progress doesn't help Tall early on because it has no benefits to expanding boarders, unlike the other 2 Trees. While you won't have to worry about having too many Unimproved Tiles, you won't have any help getting more tiles to work.

    If you are taking Progress, you are thinking about the long term. How I like to play Progress is to go Wide first and than by Industrial focus on going Tall and going into Industry and Freedom for the Specialists.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  4. zeofig

    zeofig Warlord

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    It's certainly viable. I don't know whether it's as good as tall tradition. It's probably intended not to be as good, but then again the bonus to building production and the Forbidden Palace are very strong bonuses which scale throughout the game. The 30 science per citizen in the capital is very strong early game and it's even stronger with a relatively small empire since it's a flat bonus. Likewise for the culture per tech. The problem with tall progress is that the righthand three policies do very little for you. Perhaps a hybrid tradition/progress would be strong.

    There's no reason that the lack of a border expansion bonus should be a problem. If you only have a few cities, they're going to have plenty of culture and easily expand their borders. You can always buy a few tiles anyway.

    I don't agree with this. People have been regurgitating this line for months, and progress has been buffed repeatedly. I think it's really strong if you spam settlers and beeline military theory to get horsemen for defense.
     
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    See it this way. If you stay with just three cities, which policies are helping more? One that gives great benefits to just your capital, one that is giving things in every city or one that is giving you things for fighting regardless of the number of cities?

    I'd say Authority is the best for tall beginnings, but it won't last because by fighting you are likely gaining more cities. It's not that Progress is awful for a small empire (it gives science for each newborn in your capital), it's that it is worse than the alternatives.
     
  6. ShadedSkies

    ShadedSkies Chieftain

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    Every tree suggests that you go both Tall and Wide, since robust cities will eventually offset pretty much every penalty and produce a net gain for your empire. So you need lots of cities AND they need to be big and strong.

    It's very difficult - You need to deal with the penalties at first and quickly grab the spots you need to maintain proper growth in all your cities. VP's AI is no joke on higher difficulties, if a city isn't in a location where you can easily defend it, don't settle it.

    Wide and Tall are not what distinguish the trees from one another. Tradition gives you a huge +15% all yields capital with specialists, and god help you if you miss out on Mastery. Progress gives you tons of early science to beeline early techs/wonders, and god help you if you don't find other means to produce Culture. Authority is for early wars, and god help you if you can't beat anyone.
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    This is not precise. It's easier to overexpand with Tradition. There's little to none help to minor cities,there's increased growth and use of specialists is encouraged. That simply can't work if you have too many cities, as unhappiness is unbearable. Progress is in the opposite side, most of the bonuses rewards having many cities (flat bonus per city). Only the opener is different, where it rewards people in your capital, but that's for the very very early game when you just can't have other cities. Is it possible to play Progress and small? Yes, science is going to happen fast, but overall you are not going to benefit the most.

    What I'd do is if I picked Progress and notice that there's no space for my empire to be one of the largest, then I continue taking policies in Authority, so I can open a way.
     
    GodDamnItAlexander likes this.

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