Is the AI more concerned with winning, or making you lose?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by iammaxhailme, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,856
    I was about to win a science victory when I lost a surprise diplomatic victory; I had the most votes, but a couple of AIs all got together and voted for #2 (England), which put them over the edge. This was a pretty big surprise to me, becuase everybody in the game hated England, and a few of the ones that voted for them also liked me. Could it be that the AI is just designed to stop you even if they are basically voting themselves to imminently lose?

    Moderator Action: Post edited. Please refrain from using inappropriate language on the forums. - Recursive
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2021
  2. DaniSciB

    DaniSciB Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2020
    Messages:
    81
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm actually curious about this...

    Is the priority of some of the AI be like: "If I can't win, I will prefer another AI to win rather than the player", so Own AI > Another AI > Player.

    However, in my experience I've had AI (non vassals) to vote for me in the Global Hegemony resolution, strange... But okay lol.
     
  3. Milae

    Milae Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Messages:
    330
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you using a recent patch?

    If so it's based entirely on their relationship and relative vote amounts.

    They won't ever vote for someone they don't like, and they will have to have some good reasons to vote with someone else. (Shared World Religion/Ideology, agreements in past congress sessions.) And the other civ have a lot more votes than them.

    Could you share a screenshot? I haven't actually seen this happen since I made the change so I thought I had made it too hard to get another civ's vote.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,325
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    There's nothing in the AI's programming that makes it strive to have another player lose in that way, or really in any way. The AI will try to slow down any player it can if it figures out your victory condition, but it won't troll the game.

    G
     
  5. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,856
    I'm using CBP version 94.

    Here's how many votes we all have...



    Here's China being friendly to me (as they have been all game) and England being hostile... I don't know what their relationship with each other is currently, but China joined me in war against England twice, so I imagine it isn't good. All three of us have the same Ideology. China never formed a religion and is fully converted to mine. England has their own religion and I think still has their own.



    Here's how the votes turned out, which I think is differnt from last time (I went back a few turns and replayed the final few). The first time I played this out, Portugal and China both voted partially for themselves and partially for England. This time it seems Portugal split themselves differently.

     
  6. Milae

    Milae Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Messages:
    330
    Gender:
    Male
    Version number doesn't help too much since that rarely gets changed. What was the date on the VP download you used?

    Aah, if they are splitting their vote that actually means England bought the votes then. I would guess that those votes would have costed at least 120gpt each so that's quite crazy they were able to buy so many.
     
    Recursive likes this.
  7. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,856
    Fortunately I still have the .exe, it says Vox Populi (12-1-3)
     
  8. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,691
    Gender:
    Male
    That's an old version, I made huge improvements to diplomacy AI since then, and Milae's voting rework is also only in more recent versions. Try the latest beta :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  9. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,856
  10. Hokiefan00

    Hokiefan00 Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    Messages:
    26
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Weston, Massachusetts
    I always wonder why there is an "official" version. They never seem to be more stable or balanced than the betas with hotfixes. For the longest time I would wait and wait for an "official" version. Now I wait for the hotfixes on the betas, then use that. So much amazing work has been done since the last "official" version that I could never go back!
     
    vyyt, Kim Dong Un, Hinin and 6 others like this.
  11. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,433
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Łódź, Poland
    Official version is outdated so much, it should be just deleted, because people using them are lost. All modmods must be up to date with latest betas, so why not name all betas official? :p
     
    vyyt and Zuizgond like this.
  12. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    And we should switch to using a proper versioning system.
     
    vyyt, Zuizgond and Amask like this.
  13. Milae

    Milae Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Messages:
    330
    Gender:
    Male
  14. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    I think most people actually got here through Reddit. They only pin the official versions.
     
  15. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    8,486
    Ultimately nothing is forcing modmods to update to the latest beta, they could stay on the official version.

    My opinion stems from this question.... if I did play the official version and found a bug, would the modders update that version with a bug fix, or would they incorporate that into the next beta (and/or just say the bug has been fixed in beta versions).

    If the answer is the latter (aka the official version isn't receiving bug support), than the official version isn't reeeeaaally official, its just considered "stable".
     
    vyyt likes this.
  16. looorg

    looorg Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    392
    While possibly (or apparently) not the intention isn't it more of a side-effect then? The AI will try to hinder and/or slow down the player that is in the lead or that it thinks is winning. But it will also strike at all the players that it thinks are weak, to take advantage of their misfortune. Which leaves what? A tiny little sweat spot of mediocrity somewhere in between where it leaves the player alone? So it's not really hard to imagine that it feels that the AI is out to get you no matter what you do or where in the rankings you are.
     
  17. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,691
    Gender:
    Male
    This is not quite accurate. There's a "wants opportunity attack" flag which determines whether the AI wants to take advantage of the opponent's weakness.

    I'm working on a guide for the diplomacy AI mechanics.
     
    vyyt and looorg like this.
  18. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    I think most modders don't care about backward compatibility (is that even possible?). Especially with a version that's known to be pretty unplayable.
     
    adan_eslavo likes this.
  19. Jdoug312

    Jdoug312 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Can you include demands and requests in that? I spent ~an hour last night trying to figure out when and how much I can demand from an AI who's afraid of me.

    Based on my testing, I think there's a cap of 200 value that the AI will give you, but there were a number of factors that could *theoretically* change that number (classical era, AI denounced me, AI just concluded war with third party, I moved my troops slightly closer to AI's border just before the demand, I had lower military score according to EUI)

    I tried value ranges from 201+ and they refused every time. I tried values of 100-150 on the last turn of the AI's war with the third party, and they also refused.

    Ideally I'd like to see the demand screen switch to "Impossible" when your request would be refused, but if not that, a good guide on demands and requests sounds wonderful.
     
  20. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,691
    Gender:
    Male
    The demand code needs a complete rewrite, it's hot garbage with a random factor.
     
    Jdoug312 likes this.

Share This Page