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Is the Civ VI 'hate' overblown?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by salty mud, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    And resulting in the fact that the game being still full of bugs and imbalances after 4 years of development.
     
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  2. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    Nope.
    Just nope.
    "that's a fact..." :crazyeye:
    your personal opinion has been noted. But that's all it is. :p
     
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  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yes they turn out to be good games, but that becomes a reason to buy them several years down the line, at a cheaper price, when it's completed, as opposed to paying full retail price for a product that doesn't really work.

    I probably will wait a few expansions for Civ 7 myself.
     
  4. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Chieftain

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    Don't forget the case where the pkayer doesn't want to attack civilizations which have done him no wrong.
     
  5. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    Granted. But the learning curve would have been much harder if you didn't start with vanilla. All those mechanics they've added over the years would be there from the start. But I agree. I didn't wanna buy NFP either. Playing Maya right now with SS and tech shuffle on... :rolleyes:
     
  6. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Some people seem to think that civ is a wargame
     
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  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think Civ VI is great because of its choices, there is more diversity in getting to success.
    I prefer it because of this primarily.
    Civ V had some great features but really was quite linear.
    VI is still bug ridden and I am at a complete loss how they cannot fix trading correctly, every patch there is a new way to abuse the trading screen, if I was in the testing team I would be putting one person on this thing alone, ideally someone autistic who will try all the deviations you would not imagine.
     
  8. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    Well, they don't finish the Civ5 trade bug even at the final patch, and now you can still get millions of gold in Civ5 using trade bugs.

    Why don't they just copy the experience from Civ4, the Civ4 trading system is perfect, not buggy, all resources are valued correctly. The Civ4 system is actually much more complex than Civ5 or Civ6's, but they did it. Why can't they do the same thing for Civ 5 or 6?

    Anyway, Civ5 is only buggy on trading, while Civ6 is buggy on every aspect of the game. In fact, some bugs(like the Macedon one) actually help balancing the game. 46-strength horseman heavy-cav with a free promotion is insane, but 41-strength with the bug is not that powerful.
     
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  9. Oggums

    Oggums King

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    Honestly, I've been playing it as a wargame since the original in 1991 and with every version since.
     
  10. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    I think what is dispiriting is the development path, which lately seems to be fixing things that don't need fixing and not fixing those that do. For instance, look at the thread here on "What is still broken". Leaving aside those suggestions that are purely wishful thinking, and taking only the realistic ones, how many have been addressed?
     
  11. EscapedGoat

    EscapedGoat Warlord

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    My main complaint with VI is that the many game systems require way to much micromanagement so the endgame takes forever and frankly gets boring. Also there’s no real penalty to having more cities so you really get a lot to do. While 4 city tradition in V got a bit old in the end, it gave you a way to finish the game reasonably fast while still staying competitive. I don’t feel that the dual tech tree, policies, districts adds much to the game either. I’d like the next CIV to be more “macro” oriented with more reasonable finish times, and greater rewards for “tall” play again. Also looking forward to humankind, might shake things up a bit.
     
  12. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    @EscapedGoat
    I largely agree, with the exception of districts. I think districts are a fundamentally a good feature, and district placement is one of the parts of Civ VI which I really like. I do have some issues with how they are implemented though: their yields are entirely disconnected from city population, and so your strength is largely decided by how many districts you have. Since you get a free district at size 1, and since you can only have one of each type of district, this favours going as wide as possible.

    I would also like to add that "4 city Tradition" is not as rigid as it is often described. Getting a few extra cities could often be very viable even if you were initially aiming for tall play.
     
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  13. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    It would help, if they added a proper production queue to the game. I mean, there's been a mod that does this for literally years, yet the actual in game queue still doesn't allow you to do the most simple logical task - for instance, if I add a Campus to the production queue, I can't add a Library in the queue behind it, because the Library requires the Campus to be build. I mean, seriously?? :badcomp:
     
  14. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    I disagree on districts. I think that's a great mechanic, and that kind of increased interactivity with the map is fantastic fun IMO. In 5, I often feel like the only things I consider with where to put a city is "is it on a river and a coast?" without caring about much else. In civ 6 there's a lot more to it, and that's the kind of decisions I like making.

    I half agree, half don't on the dual tech tree. One problem I had with 5 is that basically every victory type (possible excepting diplomatic) required you to rush science as much as possible since there was only one tree. This was especially annoying with cultural victories, as gettings lots of social policies is something you THINK would help more than building lots of libraries and universities, but really, it didn't beyond a few policy tree finisher bonuses. However, the civic tree is filled with social policy cards and not much else, and I don't think those are very good.

    I agree on civ 5 having better pacing (6's lategame is way too slow) and 6's policies not being good. I don't like micromanaging policy cards, and "+x percent to thing y" isn't nearly as interesting as many of civ 5's social policy effects.

    Overall, there really are reasons to like both games over another. It depends on what you like. I bounce between the two every few months, although I think I lean towards 6 a bit.
     
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  15. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    Yeah I doubt I will pre-order 7 at this rate. Probably won't buy it at all if there are no unique personalities for AI Civ leaders, missing a real diplomacy system or a rehashed agenda system, and the biggest one would be if they refused to allow full modding on 6. All of those will be deal breakers for me.
     
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    To be fair, I wouldn't pre-order anything anyways without a perk. ;) I mean, come on, at least a 5% discount or something, not just "hold on to my money for doing nothing". This is also why I have not bought NFP yet. Commence the eyerolling when DLC civs or features are again massively power crept.

    I suppose we are in between a rock and a hard place as the gaming industry as a whole is like this now; using players as beta testers with incomplete releases. Civ 5 Vanilla was especially pathetic, but perhaps what's just as bad as we got "at least it's not 5 Vanilla bad" which just keeps lowering standards. That being said, I would still place Firaxis ahead of the curve, as at least they didn't nickel and dime us with massive amounts of DLCs for basic features though. They also consider feedback when making changes. Is that worth being happy about? I dunno,
     
  17. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I agree, the main issue Civ never tackled is that you are not managing an empire, but a collection of cities, which has the issue of hugely increasing late game micromanagement. Humankind's city merging is a great idea, same for Old World not having city working distance cut-offs.
     
  18. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Anybody consider the idea that some people are just adverse to change? I mean they could just keep reskinning and repackaging the same game like CoD does. There'd be big fans still but I dont think itd have the following. I've enjoyed every iteration I've played.

    The city unpacking was the best innovation I've seen in the series. Gives the map so much more impact and prevents those dumb wonder packed cities that were always a pet peeve of mine. VI isnt perfect, no game is but I'll still be pretty excited to see VII.
     
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  19. EscapedGoat

    EscapedGoat Warlord

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    Yes, CIV VII if such a thing ever gets released needs a workable way to handle the tedium of micromanaging 20+ cities. I find the early game micromanagement fun, but the late game city micro is a game-killer for me a big reason why I rarely bother to finish games I have already essentially won in the mid-game. Would rather then start a new one to try out something else new and fun. I don't have all the answers, and those ideas from those games sound like good ideas!

    One way like you mentioned in humankind could be cities "feeding" their yield into a main city or something. This would be both fun (come on, who doesn't love a mega-super-duper-city) and would concetrate the micro to that city. It would also sort of reflect how urbanization has worked over the ages. I like it already :) Combine it with some % or population based yields and now we're talking!
     
  20. beorn

    beorn Prince

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    I've had hundreds of hours of enjoyment from Civ VI (vastly more than I got from V, btw), so obviously the game has lots of plusses. For example, the idea of districts is excellent. They have done well with the barbs. And the personalities of your opponents succeed in motivating you to smack them down.

    However, the game also has obvious weaknesses. Neither loyalty nor the "ages" ever got refined so as to add much to the game. World Congress feels like a total whiff. Diplomacy is shaky. Governors had great potential but are horribly underutilized; ditto with the policy cards -- both really ought to be used far more to differentiate civs. And the entire religious system is wasted because the the turn-to-turn mechanics of it are so boring that I simply avoid any civ that is religion based.

    I may be in the minority here, but I think that the game is gradually getting worse with time. And for one particular reason: At release, maps felt highly random. I always felt like maps in V were over-managed, such that you always got a certain share of everything, no less and no more. And for that reason, exploration was boring. None of that in VI at release, when you explored, you might find anything at all, and choosing your direction to expand was one of the main joys of the game.

    As I am experiencing it, during the updates, VI has moved back to overmanagement of maps. I think that they have a philosophy of segmenting, intended to dole out a given amount, no more and no less. So you are repeatedly placed between water and a mountain range and a large desert. Or, for variety, two mountain ranges and a desert. Or maybe three mountain ranges. I do not think that this is accidental, given the prevalence of these mountain ranges on supposedly "old" worlds.

    The message is that "You will gain too much of an advantage over the AI if you are allowed to go off and choose land, so here's your parcel, and it will contain just the right amount of stuff, just the right degree of fit with your civ's built in advantages." Then, use really hoary techniques to cap the land's benefits -- stuff like multiple copies of luxuries on tiles that would otherwise be valuable. You can almost see the game bean-counting: "Hmmm, we have him parceled off and his parcel has a quality of 148 and that's 28 too much, so sprinkle extra incense on these otherwise useful hexes."

    The outcome is to seriously diminish the fun of exploration and the choice of direction. And to create the cynical but effective strategy of figuring out how to break out into an area the game did not intend for you to go.
     
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