Is the criticism correct: Is there no actual farm/rural-looking parts of the developed map? [Share your screenshots]

kaspergm

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Hi all, one of the criticisms I've seen mentioned a lot, and a concern I have myself, is that the developed map in Civ7 becomes one mega-metropolis with hardly no actual rural farmlands - unlike obviously Civ1-5, where farms would take up a major portion of the in-between-cities area, and even Civ6, where farm adjacencies at least encouraged you to have such zones (even if it was technically suboptimal from a min/max pov.).

So now that people have played the game, I was curious if you can confirm or deny this: Are there actually larger farm-like areas on the developed map, or is it just reduced to a few single farms like some people claim? And if there are major farm/rural areas, can you try to share some screenshots of how they look?

Thank you in advance.
 
It basically depends on how much non-rough, non-vegetated terrain you get. I loved the visual spread of farmlands in Civ 6, but here is kinda... stunted. Sometimes you can manage to get a few stringed together, and I tend to avoid building districts on farm spots, so it's a bit more of a minigame to get a few farms joined together :P

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It basically depends on how much non-rough, non-vegetated terrain you get. I loved the visual spread of farmlands in Civ 6, but here is kinda... stunted. Sometimes you can manage to get a few stringed together, and I tend to avoid building districts on farm spots, so it's a bit more of a minigame to get a few farms joined together :P
Wow, those screenshots look great. Makes me wish the game was designed so that each city would be much smaller in size and cover many less hexes than what I have generally seen.
 
It depends on your settlements. I have some settlements where I specifically set out to make large swaths of rural districts, and others where I cluster the urban districts around the center and have rural surrounding, and others as a mix.

In general, adjacency bonuses from urban districts are flexible enough that you can find a path to set up your city however you want, really...
 
I think not being able to build farms on vegetated tiles negatively contributes to the possible amount of farmlands.

On the other hand, I don't usually build many farms in Civ 6 either.
 
I wonder if all this wouldn't look much better if the map were a bit bigger, the minimum distance 4 hexes and urban district limited to the 2 hexes ring.

I think restricting urban district placing in such a manner that urban districts of two different settlement couldn't be adjacent would already do the trick.

But frankly, having lots of urban sprawl is a choice. You can simply place cities with lots of urban districts among towns with mostly rural ones. You can settle further from your other settlements, so that all of them had enough space to grow.
 
Wow, those screenshots look great. Makes me wish the game was designed so that each city would be much smaller in size and cover many less hexes than what I have generally seen.
Agreed. I wish urban districts were limited to the city-center and the six adjacent hexes
 
I think restricting urban district placing in such a manner that urban districts of two different settlement couldn't be adjacent would already do the trick.

But frankly, having lots of urban sprawl is a choice. You can simply place cities with lots of urban districts among towns with mostly rural ones. You can settle further from your other settlements, so that all of them had enough space to grow.
While you can indeed role-play on your side of the world to make it look good, you then pan over the AI mess and I would expect someone that cares about these aesthetics to feel disheartened.
 
Not ingame right now and not booting it up until I've actually done my household chores (so no screenshots - maybe later), but in my opinion there's a distinct lack of rural areas. Put simply, you've got cities, a few loose rural districts and some unimproved land.

This is because a combination of factors, including a few design decisions.

First, specialists are desirable for cities if you plan your adjacencies properly. This means that cities have their population largely stuffed into urban spaces, rather than on the rural outskirts of their territory.
Second, a city covers 37 tiles (including it's city center), of which 18, that's basically half, are the third ring out. A half-half distribution of rural and urban population (note: not counting the population you get every time you build a building, only tiles and specialists) will lead to rural areas being merely a thin, one tile wide strip around a city that's five tiles across - assuming a perfectly round city. On top of that, anywhere that your cities have overlap (and I do try to avoid having more overlap than necessary, but I also don't want to waste tiles that won't ever be improved and in fact won't even be claimed) will eat away those rural tiles.
Third, towns stop growing once they specialize. You'll usually want to grow to ten or so rural tiles plus a Granary and maybe a Fishing Quay and/or Gristmill for the food they provide to your cities, which means most towns are actually on the order of three urban tiles, four resources and just six non-resource rural tiles, which are then split between farms, woodcutters, mines, etc. Anything beyond that (more than half of the tiles in the three rings of the city) remains unimproved.
Fourth, as mentioned before, vegetated tiles become woodcutters, which simply don't give the same 'this place is in use' look that farms do.
Fifth, you'll want to claim rural tiles in order to expand your borders, but once you've got everything expanded into the third ring, the incentive to do this goes down, and an extra specialist is probably worth more than yet another third ring rural tile.

Another possible contributor is that there are quite a few buildings available - two to three each for food, production, culture, science, happiness and gold, and that might be selling it short. You're easily building 15 buildings even discounting uniques, which already requires 8 tiles (city hall included), and you're not always overbuilding everything (other tiles might be better), plus you might want to throw a wonder or two into the mix, and a resource tile surrounded by city doesn't quite look rural either, so that's quite simply a lot of tiles that have to be urban. Also, unlike in Civ VI you actually have the production to build all those buildings. I would personally like to see three buildings per tile instead of two, maybe only from Exploration onward, but I doubt such a change is possible with all the art involved. You'd also have to rebalance specialists but that's probably just numbers tweaking.

Alternatively, providing more population and giving cities four rings instead of three would work, but you'd need significantly bigger maps for that (we already feel like we're playing on cramped maps primarily because the previous expansion of city range didn't come with bigger maps). And of course it would necessitate rebalancing a lot of other stuff.
 
Fourth, as mentioned before, vegetated tiles become woodcutters, which simply don't give the same 'this place is in use' look that farms do.
Just to clarify, when I think "rural", it doesn't have to be farms. Woodlands and woodcutters would also qualify as "rural", by which I just mean "non-urban". My motivation for this thread was that I've seen so many screenshots where a continent was basically covered in wall-to-wall urban districts.

But I'm glad to see that map can look good when improved in Civ7. That gives me some hope that in time, modders can salvage the game.

Agreed. I wish urban districts were limited to the city-center and the six adjacent hexes
Well my dream scenario would be one where the cultural levels of a city from ... Civ3? ... would return. I.e. in the beginning, your city is a village and only has the city centre and can work rural improvements. Then as city levels up, it becomes a town and can build urban districts in first ring, and then when it becomes a major city, it can put districts in the second ring. And the very largest cities - usually only capital cities should reach this size - would become metropoli and can put districts into the third ring.

I would also wish for a change in rural improvements, so that a farm or a mine can cover more than one hex - particular the way mines worked in previous civ games where each tile had it's own mine was very ugly. Maybe even something like a farm/plantation/mine/quarry/logging/fishing-station being a district that works the surrounding tiles, and these should go into ring 3, 4 and 5 of the city radius.

And yes, I wanted much larger distance between towns. Minimum distance 6 hexes or even more, if you asked me. But of course, that would require MUCH larger maps than the tiny ones we have in Civ6 and Civ7.
 
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Here's a screenshot from my current game. Ostia and (obviously) Rome are cities, Pompeii and Burdigala are towns (and neither has previously been a city). This is halfway through the Exploration Era. On the bottom you can see a few districts from Meroë, and on the left you can just barely see a bit of Madrid, although it should be noted that Madrid mostly expanded the other way due to natural wonder adjacencies.

I'd add a second screenshot of my distant lands but those settlements are either conquests or very recent settles, and thus not really representative.

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Agreed. I wish urban districts were limited to the city-center and the six adjacent hexes

I don't think this is a good idea. First of all, every city would then be the exact same. Look at how cities have been built through history, following resources, contours of rivers and mountains, etc. If nothing else can be said of Civ7's city style, I will say that each city feels unique.

The way cities are built in Civ7 is one of my favorite parts of the game. It feels like a sandbox, and you are actually looking at a few different factors when you expand: Do I want to culture bomb adjacent tiles to claim them before someone else? Or do I need X resource right away? (Btw, and something weirdly I don't see praised enough: Each resource in this game is unique. So truffles have different effects from jade, and the effects are actually quite meaningful.)

To the OP's worry about the visuals: I think one reason you may feel this way is that things like wonders take up a tile, and then when you build on resources you develop that resource immediately. "Rural" isn't always represented through "farms." Silk, for example (and I love this) suddenly shows a tree farm and silkworm cocoons. So yes, it isn't oodles of farmland, then city -- but lots of info beyond those two dichotomies needs to be visualized on the map.

In roleplaying terms, I've imagined cities since the last iteration of the game to be more like regions. You could imagine Tokyo (seen from space) as urban sprawl, but actually that includes other cities in surrounding areas. You could imagine tiles that are blending in with other cities to be like villages or industrial zones. Also, some societies are rural, and others urban, and in this game, you can really decide this. There is a sort of gamble. Develop food sources to grow sooner, or generate other yields now? Does that town stay a town or become a city? I'm not sure what we would get out of farm-covered landscapes here and the busywork that implies (which I am very happy is now gone).
 
I'd add a second screenshot of my distant lands but those settlements are either conquests or very recent settles, and thus not really representative.

Here are the not-quite-as-recent-anymore settles. I would've probably continued developing Barcelona and maybe A Coruna a little longer if the end of the Age hadn't already been approaching. For Zaragoza, if you pay close attention you'll note that there are barely any rural improvements. Much of the city was purchased (I had to spend that 2k gold per turn on something), and most of the time if I expanded onto a rural tile I ended up turning the citizen into a specialist. In fact, I'm only counting six rural tiles. Four of those are resources, there's that one farm that's crying from loneliness, and the fishing boat that isn't adjacent to land and can thus never be replaced.

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