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Is the Forum worth building?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ringo Kid, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. yyeah

    yyeah Emperor

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    I like this UB in Roman Empire becouse usually when i play Romans, i want to have some fun with Prets witch meens that i cant run GS's right after writing becouse of whipping, bulding Prets.
    When i reach currancy war is at point where my capitol can do other stuff then bulding army so forum at this moment is preety nice sometimes gives +2, maybe even +3 :) ( wich is realy needed after hard whipping) and this 1st GS is faster, usually can be in time to bulb PHI (academy),
    witch is preety nice esp on deity becouse early war just setting you realy behind in tech race so haveing sth like exclusivity on 1 tech is realy adv.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    @ bhavv:

    1. You need to see the time at which a building provides its benefit. The roman forum provides its benefit from classic times onwards, the Mall becomes available in modern times iirc., that's 200T+ with no benefit.

    2. If you have 30 :) , a city can be size 20 with full emancipation :mad: and it doesn't matter. In even bigger cities, you could build a Cathedral if :) is really an issue, that one isn't that much more expensive than a Supermarket, and it comes earlier, and even can give nice +2 :hammers: from the AP, again for a longer time, so it's at least equal (also gives +3 :) with Incense) . You could also found colonies, each one gives +1 :) , which gets you up to +34-40 :) , how big do you want your cities to be to make the Mall a good building?
     
  3. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Proof right here that Mr. Troll doesn't know how to read or actually play the game before posting nonsense.

    Moderator Action: Please stop your trolling. Calling someone a troll is to be one.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    OMG EVERY SINGLE GAME ONLY HAS 6 OPPONENTS!

    Also every criticism you just gave to the mall also applies to the market / forum. So why ever bother building those?
     
  4. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    The mall comes MUCH MUCH later. Plus, I don't think it is generally efficient to build a market/forum in most cities anyway although there are exceptions.

    Being a strategy and tips subforum, I would guess people post here to optimise their gameplay. No shame in building a mall if you like to build them.

    Forums can be a nice addition to GP farms I guess. Would be cool in an UR game where you use a CRE leader with forums.
     
  5. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    I feel forum got too much hate as a UB once people realized that. +25 % gP points does not mean 25% extra Great People.
    But you gotta realize even if the forum just nets one extra great person, that still makes it easily better than at least half of the UBs in this game.

    Then again that point won't work if we're actually debating whether the mall is a good UB:lol:
    I mean an unimportant base building that comes super late with a bonus that doesn't matter that late? Sign me up!

    Of course when you think working any and all ocean tiles is good play, it's not far fetched to see how your entire strategic view is warped.
     
  6. ohjames

    ohjames Warlord

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    it initially appears that the Forum is weak because the gpp bonus is wasted on your non-gp-farm cities. but in a lot of games, the gp farm is one of the few cities in which I'll want to build a Market, so the bonus is more concentrated than I first thought. it's not like you put Markets everywhere. I actually like the Forum quite a bit.
     
  7. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    The fact that many games don't make it deep into the tech tree DOES devalue the Mall and other late UBs. In that regard it doesn't really matter how good those UBs are, the simple fact that a player will frequently never have an opportunity to build them makes them significantly less valuable overall. Sure they might be good in certain situations, but these arguments are typically broad in scope and not focused on a certain subset of game conditions.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Yay, forums are up again :D .

    Wanted to hand in later the proof, that a city can really grow to size 20 and above without any problems from emancipatioin and with nn for a Mall. This screenshot is even without the Hit-Wonders, so more Happiness would have become available through the course of the game. I'm not even sure I had all classical and ancient Happiness-resources at that time, it's mostly :) through REP, State-Religion and a Cathedral with Incense:

     
  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    One word: Sushi.

    But yeah, cities can grow big without that too. My capital in the Revent-posted game was size 20, despite 26 :mad:-ness from war weariness and emancipation.
     
  10. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I wrote that because bhavv wrote, that he lets his cities grow to size 20 and stated that emancipation :mad: would be a big problem then, which was his argument for the Mall to be a good UB. I think the screenshot is about 10T after the city got Sushi, so while Sushi is completely nuts, it didn't have such a great effect yet.
    I could also post a screenshot from later, where the city was something like 26-27, and it still didn't have problems with Happiness. The air got quite thin though, still, nn for the Mall at all. I think it would have been worse with more opponents alive though, so with more AIs running Emancipation, but then still, founding Colonies would have been an option, as switching them via Espionage would have been too.
     
  11. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Oh. I don't see what he writes any more :)
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I double checked on emancipation :mad: and found that my capital in the Gauntlet only had +7 emancipation :mad: , even with 7 civs running Emancipation. Found a great post by Tachy, that explains it. The interesting part is, that the less civs are alive, the greater the :mad: , and the more cities under Emancipation, also the greater the :mad: . This maybe explains the :mad: problems, because in the scenario of the Gauntlet (many civs still alive, very large human empire) , Emancipation :mad: clearly wasn't a problem.
    For me the interesting part is, that more opponents not necessarily means more :mad: , and as long as one conquers the map, one shouldn't have problems, because half of the cities on the map won't run Emancipation because they're one's own, so Emancipation :mad: can be worked against with by Conquest and Colonies.
     
  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    If one ignores the text, that looks like a very angry post :D
     
  14. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    If had a similar thought, only that I thought it was funny that especially Tachy appeared with all of those mads :D .
     
  15. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

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    +25% birth rate is pretty decent, especially when running a good SE, which is at least an option with Augustus.

    There are obviously better unique buildings (Rathaus) and even some pretty decent uniques coming pretty late (Dike), but the Forum can contest pretty well with the Dike at least and is clearly leveraging more than something like the Mall.

    Also, I think the Dun or Citadel are worse anyway. You're building one building you don't really need most times (Dun) for a pretty meek bonus of free Guerilla I or two buildings you'll rarely ever build for one or two extra promotions on your siege. Although they at least do come early.

    The Forum is pretty situational though, it's not like the Ikhanda or Rathaus that you'll probably like to spam everywhere and anywhere.
     
  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Or the Terrace, which is brilliant.
     
  17. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Dun and Citadel aren't that bad Hurricane Jane. With the Celts, you can do some pretty amazing conquest with Guerilla II Gallic Warriors out of Barracks, and they only need 1 XP for Guerilla III, which is pretty much an Ownage promotion on hilly-maps, because it negates the hill-defense-bonus. Then, having some double Guerilla promoted Archers or XBows with them can be very nice. Ofc. it's not a great UB, but I learned to love it in GM-134.
    And the Citadel allows CR3 Siege with a Barracks and Theocracy, that's pretty amazing. Cannons are amazing themselves already, but with CR3 they can go against Infantries without problems. Ever beaten a far advanced opponent with a mix of Conqs and CR3 Cannons? Must be pretty funny imho.

    Roman Forum is so good, because it gives a bonus on a building, that is mostly useless itself, and at least makes it a little more attractive. Capital and GP-Farm are also the cities where one would build a Market probably, so the GP-bonus harmonizes very well.

    And yes, Terrace :lol: . That building alone would make me want to play a Civilization, not mattering which unique unit it would have or which traits. Best of the Terrace ofc. is, that one can conquer cities in which the Granary survived, and because it was built so early, it instantly gives +4 :culture: :crazyeye: .

    When speaing about UBs in general: I've also found some love for the Seowon (Universitiy with +10% research) and the Research Institute (Laboratory with +2 free Scientists) . Believe it or not, but Research Institutes, though late, are so good, that they outperform PHI-Universities sometimes.
     
  18. stevenburns

    stevenburns Chieftain

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    Among the rather situational UBs the Citadel is by far my favorite due to this. Too bad Spain cant bulb Engineering.
    The forum is weaker imo because it only makes sense to build it in one city, a second good gp site maybe. It might help to pop a GE on purpose though, but I rarely found corps.
     
  19. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

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    I can see the Citadel being half-decent, but it's such an enormous investment for a building that has such a small timeframs (engineering - edu is a pretty short timeframe). Without stone it's definitely too much, but with I know it's quite possible (extra traderoute is nice too). Maybe it's just my strategy that kills Spain in my hands though, I just have the feeling it's annoying to put up a weak building to build a short timeframe building just for more powerful siege (okay, that much more powerful siege)

    The Dun is okay I guess if you want to conquer hilled cities, but really not much more than that, and even then free guerilla I isn't that great. It's pretty synergetic with Boudicas and Brennus' traits, but I feel it's use is very limited.

    Dun and Citadel are the few uniques I tend to skip over sometimes. There are almost no UB's with completely useless bonuses (Trading Post on pangaea, maybe the Madrassa is a little on the weak side, that's it), but you still need to sidestep, it's just way better to have bonuses on buildings you will build anyway, even if the bonus isn't worthwhile every time (Mint). That's where the main problem of late builds like the Mall comes in too, you won't build them in many games (as you don't unlock them).

    On the subject of the Forum, the Market's strongest point is actually more or less it's possible +4 happy faces. It's not basic infrastructure but can be useful in quite some cities. Especially in cities where +25% birth rate is helpful the happy faces are good as well. And, in rare occasions, the extra gold.

    It's still only decent at best, though.
     
  20. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    The Citadel can be useful for very long, if you delay Economics. I think you only need it, if you want Infantries, and State Property is the better Civic for all conquest orientated games anyhow. That's why I wrote of "CR3-Cannons" , because you can build them out of the gate with that strategy.
     

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