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Is the Military Industrial Complex the biggest Welfare Queen in the USA?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Murky, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    You ninja'd me.

    And internet videos with an agenda, no less.

    Come on MobBoss!
    But not virtuous enough to refrain from bashing specialty trade workers and their experience? Not virtuous enough to refrain from boasting of your ability to master any of those trades yourself with little notice either. That's far snobbier than boasting of one's compensation package in my opinion, but I guess you see things differently.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Substance is elitism.
     
  3. peter grimes

    peter grimes ... Retired Moderator

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    How many?

    And how much money is 'wasted' on them?

    I argue that the money isn't wasted at all, that the recipient likely spends the entire amount of the financial support right back into the consumer economy. In other words, this is economic stimulus.
     
  4. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Yes, I've covered this already:

    I have no idea why you're going on about language (Well I do, you're just getting hung up on pointless semantics to "prove" me wrong, but no reason relevant to the point at hand.) If the intended recipient can't read it, obviously you're doing it wrong. So don't document how to build your nuclear subs in Cantonese.

    I'm not bashing - the context was that keeping production lines running is necessary or we'll forget how to produce things.

    You built nukes from scratch in ~5 years, claiming that you'll forget how to assemble a tank, given exact instructions, which is comparatively like putting Lego together, either points to grievous documentation problems or a horrible underestimation of the abilities of the people who you'd get to assemble your tanks.
     
  5. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Your intent got lost in your words then.
     
  6. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    PCHee asked me inane questions, and got answers in kind, if you ignore our exchange, my intent should be more clear.
     
  7. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    "Absolutely 100% all of it is fraud."
    —

    Rep. Markwayne Mullin on food stamps
     
  8. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    You were bashing, you have repeatedly claimed several skills that take a lifetime to perfect can be mastered in the space of weeks via reading alone.

    You undermine yourself with your nuke example. The Manhatttan project was the most expensive reasearch project in history and that was just for a basic nuclear weapon let alone power. It also took the largest war in history to motivate the expenditure in resources.

    Now granted there are some very general lessons that would never have to be repeated, buy we COULD do it again. What is lost can be found. The question is can it be done on a useful timeline and is it worth it to spend a small sum to maintains the capability rather than spend exponentially more to rebuild it later?

    In the case of tanks we already know how this works given my battleship example. The US no longer has the ability to build that sort of armor and armament. The machinery and other industrial requirements have either disappeared or been repurposed. There are no engineers with experience building them. There are no shipyards configures to handle them. All of this will have to be rebuilt or relearned. This will take years and lots of money.

    Now it tanks were battleships you could argue the chance of needing more later is low enough to justify not paying to maintain the capability. Since even you are not that short sighted you know this isn't the case.

    But let's conduct a small experiment. Every time you are done watching your TV toss it out the window a d then cancel your cable. Let us know how you bank account looks and if you were able to catch all your scheduled TV shows.
     
  9. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    What do you think is the break-even point for stopping to assembling tanks until/if it's necessary to build them again?

    Don't you think that instead of blindly continuing to assemble tanks, you should also be researching ways to make it as cheap as possible to resume construction in the future?

    Don't you think there will be considerable pressures to not actually stop assembling them as soon as the break-even point is reached?

    Because PCHee has been asking me questions about medieval laws. I'm sure you could also master them for all intents and purposes within a couple weeks.

    Could I become competent enough at welding to work on a nuclear sub within two weeks by reading? Obviously not, but claiming that someone needs decades of experience for this is insane, once you have a few thousand hours of experience, more hours of work doesn't make you any better. If you have to pay for all the thousands of hours of experience in the first place, since you get diminishing returns of improvement of skills, it rapidly becomes more efficient to break down projects so that junior workers can't break anything important and to let them actually work on the project at hand.

    Bad analogy. It's more like car insurance - the longer you've been insured, the cheaper insurance is, but you always come out ahead by going as long as possible without insurance.
     
  10. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    Why don't you just read the answer? You've spent more time arguing about this then it would take to do literally trivial amount of research. You claim you can master a legal code within weeks but it's taken you days to answer an introductory question that would take a paragraph worth of reading.

    I'm willing to spell it out for you, if you admit this one has you stumped.
     
  11. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Unable to find any real national stat on it. Seems to be tracked more as a state by state issue, which I've read different articles claiming anywhere between 6% and 60% rate of fraud depending on the state.

    But when you have single cases that can easily ramp up into 6 figures like this one: http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2012/12/couple_accused_of_taking_21900.html it doesn't really take a high percentage of fraud cases to really add up quick.

    The shocking part of that story is this particular line:

    The question isn't how much fraud have they found...its how much have they not found.
     
  12. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Fair enough.
     
  13. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Found this while looking: http://www.roanen.com/1/post/2012/04/how-much-is-welfare-fraud-costing-us.html

     
  14. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    I've provided the answer for you already.
     
  15. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    Well it's wrong, so you've proven no, you cannot master Brehon Law on your own, given a week, given two weeks, or given a hundred years.
     
  16. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Another words, it may cost us a much in a year as a couple of weeks in Iraq was costing us back in the day, but a bit worse than sleep apnea scamming that many allege is going on.

    Moderator Action: Inappropriate User trolling:

    - Grisu

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  17. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Well that's clearly not the case.
     
  18. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    Right, can you explain to me how you'd give your disputation in English then?
     
  19. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Don't need to.
     
  20. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Actual statistics on welfare fraud are never as high as 2%.
     

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