Is the word "homophobe" a leftist conspiracy?

[Ajidica]

homosexuality is a choice, race and sex are not.

Technicaly you are wrong there. You can change your sex (sex change operation) and you can change your race (plastic sugery, chemicals, and of course, the Michael Jackson approach).
Given that homosexuality is to a large extent a biochemical/psyche thing, it is far harder to change then your sex or race which just requires a few trips to the surgeon.

Bad argument is bad.

 

[Miles Teg]

homosexuality is a choice, race and sex are not.

In that case, I propose we start discriminating against people who choose to be heterosexual. I'm willing to go into the straight closet, and I expect people who flaunt their sexual choices by wearing a wedding ring or keeping a picture of their opposite-sex partner to prepare for arguments.

 

[timtofly]

Technicaly you are wrong there. You can change your sex (sex change operation) and you can change your race (plastic sugery, chemicals, and of course, the Michael Jackson approach).
Given that homosexuality is to a large extent a biochemical/psyche thing, it is far harder to change then your sex or race which just requires a few trips to the surgeon.

Bad argument is bad.

No, technically you can mutilate your body. Science is so great these days, and can allow people to think they can do a lot of things.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

where has it been proven that homosexuality is not a choice? I am also sure that people who were once gay that stopped being gay.

 

[Traitorfish]

where has it been proven that homosexuality is not a choice? I am also sure that people who were once gay that stopped being gay.

There's certainly people who are gay that stopped publicly identifying as gay, and stopped engaging in gay sex, but does that mean that they are not actually gay? Sexuality is something you are, not something you do.

Put it this way: It is possible to stop publicly identifying as Jewish. It is possible to stop practising Judaism. It is possible, in external terms, to stop being a Jew. Does that make anti-Semitism acceptable?

 

[LucyDuke]

where has it been proven that homosexuality is not a choice? I am also sure that people who were once gay that stopped being gay.

Well, what would you accept as proof?

(Also, the same person being gay and being not gay at different times in their life doesn't indicate it's a choice. It just indicates that it's not fixed. Such sexual fluidity is much more common among women than men. Pretty off-topic to this thread though.)

 

[timtofly]

Some people stop molesting children at age 16 by choice, but does that make it right for those who choose to keep doing it? I have feelings, you have feelings, everyone has feelings. I am not saying that those feelings are wrong or right and only society can determine if they want to chose what they want to be wrong or right. Personally it is wrong for me to force my opinions on others and I feel that the same respect is due me in a "so-called" free society. I am not even trying to compare the two. All I am saying is if people choose to take a way my freedom and I do not state my opinions while I can, it will be much harder to stand up for others who are forced to loose their freedoms. If that is a fear then so be it.

 

[LucyDuke]

What does molesting children have to do with anything? We force "don't molest children" on people because molesting children is objectively harmful. I don't see how that topic has any place in this thread.

 

[Traitorfish]

Some people stop molesting children at age 16 by choice, but does that make it right for those who choose to keep doing it?

Child molestation isn't wrong because it's a sexual unorthodoxy, it's wrong because it's rape. To be quite frank, regardless of whether you mean this comparison to suggest a connection between child molestation and homosexuality- you will, of course, deny that to the hilt- you've quite openly demonstrated an indifference to the actual suffering experienced by rape victims, which I can not say makes you look very good at all. I honestly can't see why, after this, you would expect anyone to pay much heed to your opinions on sexuality or sexual conduct regardless of what your position is.

 

[timtofly]

No I am saying a feeling is a feeling. I would never diminish the victim. Sexual attraction is very strong and ingrained in the human nature. Does one think one attraction is different than another just because one produces victimization and some think the other does not. Just because it may not be published that some boys who are molested cannot get it out of their feelings that they did enjoy it and that they allowed it to keep on happening while others have felt violated. To me sex is sex and it will even drive people to kill just to have it. I do care that people are victimized and I am not comparing the two. I just want to point out that there is a fine line between acting on ones feelings and not choosing to do so.

Science can figure out the results, but it cannot tell what is going on genetically at every second of ones existence. There are studies and there are rationalizations of how society determines who is the victim and who is not. Like I said earlier, We are in the 50th+ year of free sex without consequences and we do not know all there is to know on the matter, yet we fool ourselves into thinking we do.

Moderator Action: Please don't use an example that can be easily interpreted as paedophile apologism or equating homosexuals to paedophiles.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[LucyDuke]

Just because it may not be published that some boys who are molested cannot get it out of their feelings that they did enjoy it and that they allowed it to keep on happening while others have felt violated.

Yeah, I'm not participating in this sub-topic.

 

[Traitorfish]

I honestly don't even know what Timtofly is on about, and, frankly, I'd rather not try to figure it out, because even on the surface his weird rape-apologism is making me feel a bit ill.

 

[Miles Teg]

Well, at least he didn't defend anything disgusting and immoral like consensual sex between adults.

 

[timtofly]

We all now know that sexual attraction does not start until 22. Feelings never happen. Sex is a hobby of mine.

I never said anything was wrong or right neither did I compare the two as being equal. Making a blanket statement though that free sex does not have consequences IMO is pointless and I apologize for interrupting the thread. Just saying that feelings "are a right" does not make them so. I am sure there are a lot better sexual anologies out there, since mine is so morbid.

 

[bhsup]

I don't know why, but that's more than once now that this has veered into weird pedo territory.

I don't want that in my thread. Let's move away from that or I'll just sadly request this thread be closed.

 

[Elrohir]

In that case, I propose we start discriminating against people who choose to be heterosexual. I'm willing to go into the straight closet, and I expect people who flaunt their sexual choices by wearing a wedding ring or keeping a picture of their opposite-sex partner to prepare for arguments.

I dunno, gays wear wedding rings these days too -- and pictures of partners could be siblings, and so on. That seems more like discrimination based on public display of some sort of affection, not heterosexuality. (Which is fine, but a different sort of beast.)

 

[Miles Teg]

I dunno, gays wear wedding rings these days too -- and pictures of partners could be siblings, and so on. That seems more like discrimination based on public display of some sort of affection, not heterosexuality. (Which is fine, but a different sort of beast.)

I'm okay with that. People choose to display affection publicly, and I disapprove.

Come to think of it, there's tons of choices that are just as morally reprehensible as having sex with men. Like being Protestant. I would love to be able to fire anyone I discovered was a Protestant. People clearly make a decision to become Protestants, but I'm not allowed to fire them for that unless they're a catholic priest or something.

Also, political affiliation. Why the hell can't I refuse to serve someone who chose to vote for Ross Perot if they show up in my restaurant?

Senator Jim DeMint has a lovely idea to bar any women who chose to become unwed or divorced mothers from teaching children. We should be able to do that!

I belong to a small religion that prohibits reading. When I send my child to school, the government constantly attempts to indoctrinate them into thinking that reading is an acceptable lifestyle choice! Most of them try to tempt my child into the sin of reading several times a day.

Why can't I give healthcare benefits to some of my employees but not the fascist pigs who chose to fight in the Army?

I don't like looking at the old people Walmart hires as greeters. Why can't Walmart just fire anyone who chooses to grow older than 55 or so?

 

[holy king]

We all now know that sexual attraction does not start until 22. Feelings never happen. Sex is a hobby of mine.

I never said anything was wrong or right neither did I compare the two as being equal. Making a blanket statement though that free sex does not have consequences IMO is pointless and I apologize for interrupting the thread. Just saying that feelings "are a right" does not make them so. I am sure there are a lot better sexual anologies out there, since mine is so morbid.

wait are you trying to suggest children choose to have sex with pedophiles out of sexual attraction?

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: As VR kindly suggested, move away from the discussion/equation of paedophiles. It has no place in this thread.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Pokurcz]

Well, at least he didn't defend anything disgusting and immoral like consensual sex between adults.

Exactly, this is the point that I never understand with homophobes (and I am not misunderstanding your joke), what is wrong with consensual sex between adults?
How can love between adults be wrong in it self. Who's buisness is it what partners, of what sex aduts fall in love with and choose to spend their lifes with?

And it is also as Lucy Duke puts it "Well, what would you accept as proof?".

What proof does a homophobe accept, when they can't realy define what is wrong with homosexuality?

The basis of homophobia seems to be an unease with the unknown and what has been popularily stigmatized in society, usualy followed by ad hoc constructs to rationalise this unease/dislike like the claim that "it is a choise".

THe only realy good way of realising that homophobia is bad is socialising with homosexuals, and getting to know them as fellow human beings, which is problematic because of the homophobe then fears of being suspected of being a homosexual himself.

My best advice is to listen to the Howard Stern Show when George Takei visits for a week at a time. The Show is built around honesty, and George is honesty personified, and the nicest humanbeing imaginable. Former homophobes (even truckdrivers and other manly men) have phoned in during the show and told that in fact it was George Takei's visits to the Stern show that has cured them of their homophobia.

So there is hope.