Is there a guide to diplomacy?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Semmel, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Semmel

    Semmel Large Sid Meiers Collider

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    I watched in the War Academy and searched the forum. But I seem to fail finding a diplomacy guide. I play Civ4 for a long time now, but I never got higher than noble before watching TMIT videos and read forum guides. And I learned how important diplo is. I ignored it completely so far, never gave into demands and so on. I learned my lesson. But I want to understand it more generaly.

    What I expect is:

    * What are the personalities of the AI's? Who is a warmonger, who is a techmonger, who is a backstabber and so on.

    * How are the Diplo modifiers? I dont expect a exact number, but maybe a hint? What number of "+" do you need to get an AI to friendly?

    * Who declares on friendly?

    * What are the AI's faverite win strategies? I know, there are only culture and space really predictable amoung the AI, but I noticed that the AI hardly completely captures an enemy. But some AIs do quite well on waging war.

    * Whats up with defensive packts? Does it have an influence on the AI's decition who to attack? And if so, how strong can you rely on it?
     
  2. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    In the war academy there is a reference sheet that displays who will favor war, and also how good relations you need to have in order to stop the AI from plotting your demise.

    Around +10 or so to get to friendly, but keep in mind some modifiers decay over time. Also you need to keep in mind that there are hidden modifiers because some AI players just do not like you. The modifiers that you can see do not take this hidden modifier into account, so you can be friendly with Zara wit +8 showing, and pleased with Monty while the relations show +10.

    The question is a bit off, since any AI can declare on friendly. It can declare on friendly if relations were bumped to friendly while the AI was plotting war. So if Monty decides to prepare for war and then relations get to friendly, he can still declare on you. If he was not plotting to declare war on you and relations get to friendly, then no AI will plot to wage war on you. However, some AI's can still be bribed to go to war despite friendly relations. Catherine comes to mind.

    Culture or space. There are examples of an AI winning domination but that is rare.

    I am unsure. I believe it has a relation to how likely the AI is to attack you since the AI does not like it if you have pacts with others. I am unsure what other influences defensive pacts have.
     
  3. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Check my signature, the "AI behavior" link for a bunch of charts.

    To add to Shurdus:
    * What are the personalities of the AI's? Who is a warmonger, who is a techmonger, who is a backstabber and so on.
    Check the XML values. High unitprob + high chance of DoW = warmonger etc.

    * How are the Diplo modifiers? I dont expect a exact number, but maybe a hint? What number of "+" do you need to get an AI to friendly?
    Pleased: +3 and up
    Friendly: +10 and up
    Keep in mind there are some hidden modifiers you can't see so an AI might not be Friendly at +10, but at +13 for instance.

    * Who declares on friendly?
    What Shurdus said.

    * What are the AI's faverite win strategies? I know, there are only culture and space really predictable amoung the AI, but I noticed that the AI hardly completely captures an enemy. But some AIs do quite well on waging war.
    What Shurdus said. The AI is bad at war so it's pretty rare to see an AI steam-roll over everybody. AIs pursuing Domination will win Diplomacy most of the time before managing a military victory.

    * Whats up with defensive packts? Does it have an influence on the AI's decition who to attack? And if so, how strong can you rely on it?
    Yes, but instead of just adding up the power of both individuals in the defensive pact, (and I might be wrong here but...) the AI will average the powers... meaning it might now be ready to attack an AI it was too afraid of previously.

    The big advantage is of course that you get to bribe an AI on your side of the war for free.
     
  4. Semmel

    Semmel Large Sid Meiers Collider

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    I found the reference sheet of dj_anion, its very nice and will help a lot! However, I try to avoid looking at the XML sheets because it kind of makes me a hardcore player and I dont really want to be one ;-) However, I like to be good at the things I do, so .. i guess there will come a time that I cant avoid it any more.

    Thank you! Hidden modifiers are quite a bit interesting because it makes the game less predictable. I like that, but it makes Diplo a little bit harder.

    Ohh, I didnt know an AI basically cant plot a war against you if its on friendly (exepct special circomstances). Thats nice to know! I knew that there are AI's that declare on pleased ( in fact most of them do, so the exeption are thous who dont).

    Well, Diplomacy is almost the same as Domination: you own the most of the world. If its your own country, one of your vassals or some AI that licks your feet. For me, its not a big difference.

    Well, thats a bit odd.. If the everage is used, you can have defensive packs with like 3 large nations, and they still attack you because the everage military is lower. But the absolute military might be 2 or 3 times as much as the attacker. But if the AI is willing to risc war against several players.. so be it! As long as they hate each other over that, it better for the player.

    Thank you! Very nice collection, you got there. especially the light bolbing theory is very helpful. I always wonder how people know how to lightbolb a certain tech because for me, its kind of a gray area: i know it works 'somehow' but I never worked out how I have to tech to get a certain technology lightbolbed. Thank you very much. Also many of the displayed values for diplomacy are very helpful.

    However, I got some questions regarding how to read the sheats properly.

    * How do I read the peaceweight chart? What do the numbers mean? Especially, whats that scale on the x-achsis?

    * In the deals chart, what do the colors mean? Why is "F" (= friendly?) sometimes red and sometimes green? as for "P" (= pleased?) sometimes red and sometimes orange?

    * In the Attitude increases chart, do the colors just give an impression how "good" one action is? So in "share religion" <= 4 is bad and >= 6 is good but on "Share War" <= 3 is bad and >= 5 is good?


    Thank you very much so far! It helped a lot.
    Semmel
     
  5. Semmel

    Semmel Large Sid Meiers Collider

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    Actually, I have one more question. How does "We fear you are becomming too advanced" work? I have the impression this must be a joke the AI is plotting. They for sure broker all kinds of tech around amoung each other. I got a nice example here:



    what the hell? I am so far behind, I guess its game over. How comes he is advanced in so many ways and still fears I become too advanced? This is just rediculus.
     

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  6. Saxif

    Saxif Chieftain

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    Maybe it is a case of wanting to keep the underdog down. We do it in real life, the US have always being trying to push down South America for example. They now fear if they were to catch up in tech and military there might be some form of reprisal ...

    I have just downloaded the new BAT mod (contains BUG), I had an older version and apart from killing my hall of fame which I hate it also displays the hidden modifiers. Now I have a question, do the AI's have hidden modifiers with each other? And do the hidden modifiers get worse the higher the lvl you play at?

    I find it very hard to bribe an AI to do anything, though I don't use spies to switch civics, or switch mine to match, I suspect if I did it would be a wasted effort though ...

    Regarding AI wins, afaik they mostly go for Culture and Space race as previously mentioned, I was trying for a peaceful Space Race once in a Prince game but Kubli Khan kicked the crap out of all the AI and won a domination/Conquest before I could send my ship to the stars. Stupid thing is at one point I could have stomped on him with Artillery and Infantry but didn't want to get sucked into the war that I had avoided by having my own decent sized island ... c'est la vie :)

    Sax.
     
  7. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @ Semmel

    The feature you are asking about is far diferent of what it looks by a reading of the text denial ( another example of Firaxis Engrish in the GUI ). What happens is that all the AI controled civs count the techs you ( and all the other players, AI controled or not ) bought or extorted after they know you and will refuse to trade more techs after a leader dependent limit, and that is when this denial appears ( this is not definitive , since there is a chance of they forgetting a certain tech deal for this count ).
     
  8. cherrysnowdrop

    cherrysnowdrop Chieftain

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    About declaring on friendly: I remember reading that Catherine will declare anytime, even on Friendly and is the least likely to care about your religion.

    And about "We fear you are too advanced": It does happen after you trade a certain number of techs, but there's a loophole: it just counts for trades between civs that the AI you are asking knows. So even if you trade loads of techs between Civ A, they won't count in trades with Civ B as long as they don't know each other. Pretty useful when you meet a new civ on another continent hundreds of turns later. :D
     
  9. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    No AI will declare on you via the normal AI war decisionmaking when they are friendly. (And many also won't even at pleased.) However, bribing AIs (paying them in cash or tech) to DoW is a different mechanism. Even then, no friendly AI except Cathy can be bribed to DoW.

    About "we fear you are becoming too advanced" (WFYABTA): it is computed by the number of techs you've gotten from AIs, not their value. So, you want to avoid trading for (or begging for) low-value techs. WFYABTA does not apply to AIs you are friendly with, so you can trade as much as you like with them. Also, each time you advance to a new tech era, your WFYABTA decreases by 1 (I think, maybe 2?), and you can do a bit more trading with any AI that you've hit the wall with.
     

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