Is there a way to change the name of the rival leaders?

[lymond]

Austria was a major European power for a substantial period of time.

Well maybe their blood wasn't, but the territory (Gaul and the north of italy) and things like Christianity were inherited from the romans.

This argument is very similar in nature to other arguments about Charlie and HRE in this thread, including ones made by me - whether pro or anti. To wit:

1) Charlemagne was the father of the Holy Roman Empire. However, it actually wasn't called the HRE until quite some time later, but in many respects it was the same evolving realm. Charlie "resurrected" and tried to re-form what was once the Roman Empire (or at least Western Roman Empire), but the Romans didn't have jack to do with it.

2) Charlemagne should not be HRE. Otto should or Maria Teresa or Charles V or whoever, because the HRE was German or whatever or Charles was French or whatever. Well, the Franks were a Germanic tribe and much of the Frankish Empire was German. Aachen is in Germany (quite nice by the way - went there a few years ago) Also, there were quite a few emperors who were not German.

The point is that I guess you could go either way but to a degree all the arguments - including my own - have weak points.

I will aver gain though that although Charlemagne envisioned a Roman Empire rising out of the ashes, I think the comparisons fall very short between the classical Roman Empire and the HRE - territory not withstanding. Actually there was goodly portion of the HRE that lay outside the old borders. In my opinion, HRE had a lot to do with the H, i.e., it was about realm governed by Christianity. Christianity had a very minor role in the old history of the Roman Empire. It was not its foundation and didn't rise until the Empire was well in decline.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Well maybe their blood wasn't, but the territory (Gaul and the north of italy) and things like Christianity were inherited from the romans.

It's not the same in spirit and ethnicity.

And I don't agree about Austria. It did play a role in history (German unification, Napoleonic wars, WWI) but not enough to make it worth it for a Civ.

You should really read up on history. Austria had been a major player of European politics long before the rise of Prussia (which dominated much of what we know as Germany today). After some generations of Holy Roman Emperors, the HRE's crown mostly fell into the hands of the Habsburgs who ruled the Archdutchy of Austria.

Famous rulers such as Maximillian I, Charles V, and Maria Theresa were all Austrians (in Charles V's case, half Austrian).

Before the Treaty of Versailles, Austria was a major player in European politics and took part in:
- The 30 years war
- War of Spanish Succession
- War of Austrian Succession
- The 7 years war
- Napoleonic Wars
- Congress of Vienna
- Austro-Prussian War
- World War 1

Even though Austria is a tiny and insignificant country these days, it used to be larger than the combined size of modern Austrian, modern Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Croatia. It also possessed parts of Poland and large parts of Romania. Of course, it lost all those land because it got butt raped in almost every single war it took part in since Napoleon's defeat.

I think a Hebrew (Israeli?) Civ would make more sense, since they founded a mayor religion and played a huge role in past and current conflicts.

Israel has never been a country until some 60-70 years ago. But if you really insist, there's a thread about an Israeli Civilization.

 

[plasmacannon]

I don't mind the HRE in Civ4. Charlemagne too.
I just wished they got the UU right.
I read up on old Charly reciently, and it stated he fought with men at his side called a "scara".
These were his elite troops at the time.
At least one reference desribes them as "elite calvary".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scara_(historical)

Civ4 has him as a PRO leader, yet, we can't do much conquering with archers, but, we can with a Horse Archer.
Here is a Map of the lands he added to the Frankish empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg
As this is still Pre-France, and France already has 3 Leaders, I am ok with him being HRE.
I just want an offensive UU.

Also, I have to agree with adding Israel. We have Judiasm in the game, but, not the Jews? When exactly they became a country, I am not sure, but, the Jewish people have a history going back some 2000 years. The UU? The UB? Yea, that is for another post.
Austria sounds good too.

 

[Shoes]

Israel has never been a country until some 60-70 years ago. But if you really insist, there's a thread about an Israeli Civilization.

I would have to disagree with you. A Jewish country did exist waaaaaaaay back around the time the Asirian Empire ruled the Mesopotamian area.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I want a way to temporarily change a leader name based on the situation and context of the game I'm playing. If I'm England as Churchill, I want my French AI to be DeGaulle not Napoleon, and the German AI to be Hitler, not Frederick or Bismarck.

Don't make me say the R-word. It's like throwing water on the wicked witch over at Firaxis.

 

[Skallagrimson]

In fact this was moddable on the fly in Civ2 so I know it can't be impossible to code it back in.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I would have to disagree with you. A Jewish country did exist waaaaaaaay back around the time the Asirian Empire ruled the Mesopotamian area.

So that ancient Jewish country is Israel? Or is it that all Jewish countries are Israel? And of course... had these Jewish countries contributed greatly to history on a relative scale?

 

[s.bernbaum]

So that ancient Jewish country is Israel? Or is it that all Jewish countries are Israel? And of course... had these Jewish countries contributed greatly to history on a relative scale?

I speak in reply to the first part of the above, neither supporting nor opposing the inclusion of an Israeli civilization in CIV. Yes that country was Israel. Of what country do you think David and Solomon were kings, if not Israel? Was it known as Israel... no. However, there are many "countries" in CIV known by their modern names not their ancient ones. For example, in the eyes of the ancients, Alexander was a Macedonian, not a Greek. (Currently a source of much invective between modern Greece, with its province of Macedonia, and the country derived from the breakup of Yugoslavia which is also named Macedonia.)

 

[Skallagrimson]

I would have to disagree with you. A Jewish country did exist waaaaaaaay back around the time the Asirian Empire ruled the Mesopotamian area.

Saying all of Israel at the time of the 12 tribes was "Jewish" is like saying the present day United States is all comprised of Texans. The name "Jew" stems from the tribal name "Judah", which was one of the tribes.

 

[Shoes]

Actualy it wasn't just 12 tribes. Some guy united them into a kingdom to fight off an invasion. And they did it so they do have historical value. Also have you not heard of David's invasions over the nations of Asia Minor?

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

Saying all of Israel at the time of the 12 tribes was "Jewish" is like saying the present day United States is all comprised of Texans.

No need to get nasty, geez.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Right... and somehow the modern Israel is directly linked to them? I am not a religious person, but I presume not all Jews were born as Jews...

By the way, don't forget both the HRE and Russian Empire claimed succession to the Roman Empire. Maybe they should've considered as Romans as well? After all, they were all Christian kingdoms (one being Roman Catholic and the other being Orthodox).

 

[SouthernKing]

Also, I have to agree with adding Israel. We have Judiasm in the game, but, not the Jews? When exactly they became a country, I am not sure, but, the Jewish people have a history going back some 2000 years. The UU? The UB? Yea, that is for another post.
Austria sounds good too.

I agree with Austria. we need another Eastern European civ, and Austria was probably the most important of these. unless you want to include the Teutonic Knights or Templars as a civ...

Israel...no. I dont have anything against jews personally, but they've almost never been an independant nation except for short periods of time in ancient times and after 1947 (or whenever).

If you want a new civ, why not Polynesia. The were able to settle remote Pacific islands long before China or Europe could go that far. Correct me if this is wrong, but I think Polynesians also build the moai statues on easter island. Their UU could be the Kon-Tiki, which replaces the galley and can enter ocean tiles.

 

[plasmacannon]

Very ancient Polynesia, I am definitely for, but, I prefer ancient starts.
I want a game from 20,000 BC to 1200 AD.

Assyrians or Hittites should be added too.
These are the guys that Fought Egypt, Babylonians, and early Israel.
Assyrians were known for their archers and seige Rams.
Hittites were known for their 3 man chariots, and the reason Egypt built their chariots a different way.
They were both in roughly the same region, so, one could add them in as a combo-empire, if needed.

@ Skallagrimson - You would have to set this up in the options menu, to specifically get DeGaulle, instead of Napoleon, for example.
For leaders that are not even in the game, I am not sure how to get those.

 

[Skallagrimson]

No need to get nasty, geez.

Wasn't tryin' to be nasty, just sayin'.

 

[Skallagrimson]

If you want a new civ, why not Polynesia. The were able to settle remote Pacific islands long before China or Europe could go that far. Correct me if this is wrong, but I think Polynesians also build the moai statues on easter island. Their UU could be the Kon-Tiki, which replaces the galley and can enter ocean tiles.

The Rapanui people of Easter Island were, in fact, Polynesian. You are correct. The Maori are also culturally polynesian, and warrior for warrior, I'd stand those up against any pre-gunpowder army of the ancient or medieval world. No metals? No problem: they made swords out of shark's teeth and other natural materials that cut just as effectively. The image most people have of Polynesians being hula-dancing hostesses at a luau, are obviously not getting the complete picture here.

I agree with the nature of your proposed UU, but would prefer to call it a Pahi, which is a more general Polynesian name for a deep-sea-worthy ship. The UB could be a Marae, which would have the same sea tile effect as Moai.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

You do realize I was referring to the part about Texans, right?