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Is there any "LP" Horse Archer rush videos?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by cbucks, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. cbucks

    cbucks Warlord

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    I know this is a viable rush option and I can never pull it off for some reason. Here was my latest attempt. Normal, Emperor, Fractal, no huts etc.




    While I was able to take out Monty and could take out Salidin in a few turns, the war took way too long and it killed my economy and my take rate completely.

    I started pumping out spy's to lower Saladin's defense before the war (after I took out Monty, which I guess was a mistake and I should have left him with one city?) but I could never accrue enough EP to put a city in revolt, even when running 10% EP.

    So, I was wondering if there was a TMIT or another video where someone successfully executes a 'quick' Horse Archer rush.

    thanks in advance!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    don't know about emperor but on deity it's really tough to get a good rush against even 1 Ai with ha's. it's hard to support enough cities to produce the necessary units while teching fast enough to get to hbr in time. you need to have a numerical advantage, cut off metals and reinforcements, threaten multiple cities, strike quickly and pillage. Generally very difficult to manage under less than ideal circumstances, as well as costly.
     
  3. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    well what i can see of Sal's land it is very good, so you should recover quickly :)
     
  4. ABCDPuppies

    ABCDPuppies Warlord

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    Yeah this looks fine. As long as you have writing you can recover. Put the slider down and run scientists to get to currency, then build wealth -> CoL. Assuming (I hope) you got alpha before starting on maths, you can also build research to get currency faster.
     
  5. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It would help if you weren't actively using a unit worse than normal horse archers :lol:.
     
  6. Fibonacci1123

    Fibonacci1123 Chieftain

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  7. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    I was thinking of making one. HA rush is very expensive because you can't get them before the AI gets spears ( well you can't on higher difficulties ). You have to manage your economy correctly so you don't go broke doing it.
     
  8. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    ebucks, am I reading that correctly?
    Is that the 38th Numidian Calvary you have built?
    wow.
    I don't remember when, I've built that many, well numids = never, but, HAs even as Kublai maybe into the 20s.
    I usually need time to build up the cottages to pay for the empire I just conquered.
    By then, LBs are out, so, I don't build more.
     
  9. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    38 is a good start, but sometimes it's fun to build a few more...



    That was such a fun game. Longbows may stop NC, but they're not stopping keshiks -note the 32 LBs killed. To the original poster, NC is a tough UU to get the HA snowball to work all that effectively. You're most often going to face archers, with some melee units mixed in, but the NC is pretty weak against the archers, so it's tougher to make the HA rush period really last.
     
  10. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    ok. me = not expert at HA rushes yet then :)
    Wait, I hope you captured alot of cities. Otherwise, losing 142 Keshiks to raze 5 cities doesn't sound very efficient.

    @ OP - As Hannibal, you might find Sword rushes better, with Numid support vs axes.
    His CHA trait gets you to CR2 and 3 sooner than other empires.
     
  11. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    Note the number of monuments built vs. the number of settlers built...about 35 cities claimed with keshiks in addition to the razed ones..
     
  12. cbucks

    cbucks Warlord

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    the first time i played the map i did a chariot rush and took out monte and then quit. I decided to replay and try a HA rush because I have never really been successful with one.

    Monte was taken out very easy. But Saladin started cranking out troops. I built a ton of spy's and thought I'd be able to city revolt at least ONE city, but it didn't work out.

    I can rush or attack with pretty much every other unit by HA's so I was hoping someone could show case one in a LP or a game.

    Like TMIT and some other's said, I'm not so sure NC are all that great. They take out melee in the open field but sort of suck against protective archers in a city. I got stoned quite a bit while trying this rush.

    Thanks for taking a look at my game everyone. If anyone would like to post a LP or a new game featuring a HA rush, I'd be deeply indebted and would never speak ill of you
     
  13. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Trust me, you're not alone, there really is no good HA rush. Any other rush would be better.

    If you rush early ( like 1500 BC with a gold mine and horses in your capitol ) then you probably don't have enough HA's to really keep the cities you take. You also tend to go broke. On the other hand you could have rushed chariots in 2000 BC and caught the AI with it's pants down. In 1500 BC the AI will already have walls + spears on the higher levels. Chariots are also cheaper.

    If you rush later when you have more cities ( like 500-1000 BC ) then you could probably just tech construction and rush with elephants + catapults.

    If you rush any later then that you might as well rush knights ( which is possible to pull off around 1 AD without oracling anything )

    However I do take offense to the Numidian bashing here. NC are nice units that start with an extra promotion ( flanking ) and they can hold their own vs spears ( combat 2 + shock ). A pure NC rush is a little stronger then a pure HA rush IMO, the AI will be stacking melee units in it's cities by the time you attack anyway, so the archer thing is not a huge issue. Plus don't forget hannibal is charismatic.
     
  14. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    Agreed, I once started in semi iso me (hannibal) and tokugawa on an island. I beelined hbr and took out Tokugawa completely. As you said he spammed melee, and it wasn't even a fair fight. even when facing archers on hills the easy f2 promo carried the day. Numidians aren't terrible if you push b4 the Ai gets hbr or feud. Also a shock numidian can kill it's direct counter in the open quite handily, so if your saavy enough to draw out a few spears, you can mow them down in the open no problem. Also they are their own stack pro, which allows numidians to penetrate deeper faster without escort.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Archers remain the #1 most consistent and common city defender by count. Normal HA have winning odds against non-protective archers in a city. NC...have <40% odds of victory. No thanks.

    NC aren't bad upgrade units and they can be pretty rough to deal with in MP (though still not great as many of the common options players pick beat them such as war chariots/skirmishers/maya/whatever), but they're subpar offensive rush units and can't even pretend to compete with the keshik.

    One doesn't always have ivory for elephants.
     
  16. vanillasine

    vanillasine Warlord

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    i remember a game i had on prince with huts where i somehow pulled the horseman tech very early (edit: from a hut clearly).... beelined to archery (lol), and made quick work of neighbors that didnt even have bronze set up...
     
  17. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    tmit you're right keshiks are much better rush units than numidians overall, but I think that numidians are better vs. spears however. Personally when i have tried ha's as a rush unit, my main foe has always been the spear. In most cases they are resource dependent so cutting off the enemies ability to produce them is vital. the problem is that it's often difficult to find and cut off all of the enemies metals. When the Ai has metals in my experience it often will spam melee units even if archers would be better suited to the task. Numidian cav allows the user to build 1 universal unit and spam rush, disregarding the need to find and cut off metals (which can cost many units to accomplish). As well Hannibal's traits pair well with the abilities of the numidian, with fin he can tech hbr quick as well as whip more with cha. Or simply have higher production or income, from having more citizens.

    That being said I'm no Numidian fan boy, I've only ever used hannibal a few times and not usually HA rushing with him. But I never got all the Numidian hate, every time I've tried them it's been decent as far as Ha's go anyways. I suppose exchanging the problem with spears for a problem with archers is no real solution, as they can't be cut off. WC's are better rush units than either numidians or keshiks IMO due to the low hammer/tech cost.
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    The big plus Hammibal has is the financial trait. With the right start you can cruise to HBR and archery even on immortal.

    On my current immortal game I already have HBR and I am considering a NC rush. Only issue is the closest Ai is quite some distance off. The big plus TMIT forgets is bonus versus melee unitts in the field.

    Keshiks will always be the better used based on 1 movement point over jungle/forest. I have done many successful NC rushes in my time.
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    War chariots are the best rush unit in the GAME, with the sole exception of the quecha on marathon (maybe epic). They comically can fight numidians straight-up, for less hammers and sooner...

    The problem with facing spears or not with HA can't be so simply broken down. The primary threat of HA in general is their mobility; you can often blitz less-defended cities that carry a lot of production potential for the AI (interior cities), and those cities often have mostly archers. In such a situation spears must cope with the mobility disadvantage and can not be everywhere. While numidians can tank them a little better in the field, stock HA higher base str + shock doing more does help them make up some of that difference and are more apt to provide enough threat to force spear movement in the first place (or in the AI case take weaker cities).

    The real kicker sadly is that NC lose to HA straight up and are MARKEDLY worse against all non-melee; even things like chariots/elephants/defending vs catapults TT. They help in some situations and hurt in just as many; usually a UU does something that HELPS CONSISTENTLY. Even the woeful ballista elephant rarely does actual harm.

    NC are usable against melee heavy opponents and for their upgrades so they're not a total waste, but one does not generally pick carthage to go on a HA rampage...
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Double Postage...internet here is iffy.
     

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