Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by apenpaap, Aug 26, 2009.
the aifons turned into fish didnt they.
What would happen if we guessed the right answer? Would we ever find out that the answer was, in fact, correct?
I actually like the idea of Ceridwen hiding them in another dimension. Agares is trying to turn the good/neutral gods... perhaps he instructed Ceridwen to hide them to try and control Danalin- which is what Hastur is doing right now.
I tend to prefer to think that Ceridwen is actually leading the evil gods and that Agares is just a figurehead that thinks he's in control.
Ceridwen and Aeron. Agares seems to mostly be depressed
I prefer to think that Aeron thinks of himself as the true leader of the evil gods, but that Ceridwen is manipulating him just like Agares and everyone else. She probably also has Mammon convince that he is in charge, but he like Ceridwen prefers to rule from behind the scenes.
Agares however is not completely worthless. He may serve mostly as inspiration, but I think that he may provide a certain spark of genius rather similar to his antithesis (Amathaon) that gets most the evil plots started. His focus is on corrupting rather than destroying, so rather than fight he tries to make peaceful contact with good angels. He has proven remarkably good and convincing them to abandon Good, as shown by the size of the armies and the fact that he did not create anyone in them. I do however still tend to think that the sphere of Despair continues to pull him ever deeper, so he is becoming more and more withdrawn from the world.
I think there may be some merit in Xienwolf's idea that the ritual Trenton Majosi used to try to save his people may be what doomed them. It (and The Draw, which may be the same thing) bears a resemblance to one of the Spells of Winter that Tebryn Arbandi was casting in Kael's D&D campaign. (The campaign is far from cannon, but is the source for many of the ideas that eventually made it into the mod.) The specific ritual I'm thinking of involved killing an entire race of people and consuming their souls for power. Tebryn's allies Auric Ulvin and Tuoni had very different ideas of how this power should be used. Tuoni was having Tebryn use the ritual to kill everyone in the whole world, so that he could capture their souls within the Opalus Mortis (the Gem of Death, one of the Gems of the Creation that long after being stolen from the True Heaven by Agares was stolen from Agares by the mortal Three Brothers) and use the power to create a new world of the dead and make himself the new God of Death. Auric wanted the ritual to stop after it was fully powered but before it could be completed, so that the energy it had collected could instead be used to power his ascension to becoming the new God of Ice. The human players were forced to choose between helping one of these two evil men become a god and conquer the world. They considered Auric the lesser of two evils, and so the precept of Ice gained a new avatar. Xienwolf's idea is that Trenton stopped casting the ritual not so much because he realized the horrors of the new godswar it would cause, but because he at the last minute figured out how it worked. By then it was too late to completely shut it down, so even though their god did not enter Creation the price of the souls of his people still had to be payed. When the Illians discovered the ritual, they found that it had already been almost fully powered and that they could finish it to summon Mulcarn with only a few souls, probably less than they thought they would lose if they let the mad followers of the recently fallen Bhall continue to rage against them. (They may have not realized that the ritual required the death of the victims' souls rather than just the body, so they considered it a small price to pay to kill a few of their friends to save their whole nation.)
so in the light of that Magister, where are the Aifon souls? Kael said nothing can be totally destroyed. can the Aifons then be brought back from destruction?
I believe he said he prefers to think that something survives even from soul consuming rituals like these used by Vampires and Eaters of Dreams, but he did not sound all that confident about it. I prefer to think that they are destroyed as far as anyone in Creation is concerned, but that The One will restore them when he returns.
Perhaps souls destroyed in creation go to The One's vault, i.e. Heaven. It is also possible that the completion of the Altar has a similar effect to that of sacrificing a race to bring a god into creation - except it "sacrifices" everyone, and brings in The One.
Fascinating implications for the roles of good and evil if that is the case...
But True Heaven was sealed off completely from mortal/godly realms, so souls can't just travel there like they can to the more normal heavens or hells. Ceridwen is the only one who might be able to but there's no way to know.
But if the One wanted to (which is fuguritive, does the One acually think?...) he(it?) could do anything. He is also the only one able to traverse from heaven, but the taint in creation is to unholy for his presence. So... hypothetically the One could bring souls into Heaven, but may risk destroying them in the prosess.
P.S. I know that makes no sence
But the souls have already been destroyed - that's why they're going to join the One. And I wouldn't worry too much about the whole "heaven-was-sealed-off" thing. The vaults of the gods are inaccessible to mortals (more or less), but when they die, their souls can pass through the barriers between worlds. Perhaps, then, when the soul is destroyed, something else (the divine spark itself?) passes through the barrier to the One's heaven.
No, I think sealed off means sealed off. It's true what you said that souls can pass into the Angels' vaults when they die, but I don't think there's a barrier between Heaven and Erebus, there's a void.
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