Is this a regen? Tips on making this work?

[ShunNakamura]

Ragnar of the Vikings.

Current thoughts are to rush down the tech line to get seafaring techs. And aim to rule the seas early on. In addition I want to see what is on that island right beside me. This is going to be one time I may wish I had the Vikings' Dragonships/longships as a UU[at least the UB gives a free navigation promotion].

My second city will likely be dropped where it can grab both the gold and the cows.

 

[njorls]

Unless I'm missing something you can't get both the gold and the cows.

As for tips I don't have much, island starts aren't my strong point.

 

[madscientist]

This is a tough map. If that is plains then it may be workable, if desert that stinks. You cannot get the cows and one gold in a city. I suggest three cities on the snaky island, Collect the cows and seasfood with second, get the wine and 2 gold with the third.

Tech suggestion: Mining/Bronze working/Sailing/mysticism/wheel

Build order: Workboat/Workboat/Warrior/Worker/Settler/Warrior/Warriro/Settler. Use one workboat for exploration. Add a Galley when you can and check out the island.

Suggestion: If you tech sailing early, build your UB then tech masonry and try for the great lighthouse. That may save you researchwise until you get settled a bit. You have hills and forrests to chop in the capital. Just a suggestion

 

[xanadux]

Well you have enough food in capital that you may be ok. It all depends what you get from the neighboring island. You can settle 1 decent city for the cows and seafood, then the third as suggested to grab the gold (though it may be better to put this on the other land mass). One thing is that barbarians will not be a problem immediately. I would try to get out 3 workboats as quickly as possible ... 2 to work the seafood, 1 to scout the other island. This may not be so bad, if the other island is decent, you can move the capital and the initial capital will be a fine GP farm.

 

[xanadux]

difficulty level?

 

[futurehermit]

I would probably regenerate, but on these forums we try to make games work. We're fanatics after all!

I would say use your capital as an early gpfarm. Build 1 city with cows + 1 seafood. Build two other (commerce) cities to the north.

GET THE COLOSSUS. Great lighthouse if possible, but if not it is ok.

Go up the seafaring route all the way to optics, but delay astronomy for awhile (obsoletes colossus).

Settle the nearby island and you should be ok.

You will be really, really low production so you will NEED universal sufferage to take care of this issue.

I think this game is definitely doable, but you will need:

1) Colossus + (later) universal sufferage
2) Settle your nearby island
3) Beeline optics

 

[ShunNakamura]

Miscounted the number of squares on the cold+cow issue :/.

I nailed the Great Lighthouse and it looks like I will nail the Colossus if I want it. Low production areas is REALLY slowing me down... I am not at all used to this little production. However I do have quite a lot of trade commerce. 4 trade routes all with 4 commerce in each city once I get a harbor.

I got a forge and Engineer up and running as soon as I could, though my first GP was a merchant[after thinking about it I bulbed him for currency just for the extra trade route that early on; gave me a noticeable boost in research].


And before I forget I play noble most of the time[and this is one of those times].

 

[futurehermit]

ouch...sitting bull. will comment on that in a second.

I will nail the Colossus if I want it

If you WANT IT??? Colossus is THE wonder for archipelago-type maps!

Ok, sitting bull. Taking him on early would really suck. My thinking is you will want a tech edge on him. I think a really key time would be to attack him with berserkers before he gets longbows. Of course that means having some galleys ready and you're going to have to whip berserkers, mostly out of your capital by the looks of things. Berserkers of course have amphibious which is HUGE to attack on this map, ESPECIALLY with sitting bull's UB and protective trait, and ESPECIALLY with your lack of production (not so easy to replace troops).

I don't think you can wait forever to expand. The AI kinda sucks at navy though and you have an amphibious UU so I think you have an advantage there. Financial + colossus means 4 commerce coastal tiles (makes your northern cities worthwhile commerce cities when otherwise they would suck!), so getting a tech edge should not be too difficult (esp on noble).

Alternatively of course you could go after softer targets and try to take sitting bull once he's really backwards (usually happens).

The AI kinda blows on these maps so once you start claiming territory you will be in good shape. The overseas maintenance will hurt you, but being financial will soften the blow somewhat. You will probably want state property once it is available.

Free speech might not be as much of a priority though meaning you could keep your capital as a production center under bureaucracy. As long as other civs aren't in emancipation you could also consider staying in slavery for production as well.

US-CS-Sl-SP-FR could be the way to go here.

 

[ShunNakamura]

About Sitting Bull; that random event where all melee troops get cover occurred for me. How, helpful would that be against him? I would have Combat 1, City Raider 1, Cover Beserks against him at least[if I can get ahold of Theocracy/Fuedalism from a AI I could even get City Raider 2... however, I won't hold out for that.... the AI never likes to trade with me]. Anyways my first thought was to go after the Darius who is nearest me first.

About the Colossus it just seems to me that on this map it would obsolete awfully early on.

Is it bad that I am particularly looking forward to move 4 Ironclads[looks like I'll have the ocean faring techs first so I'll likely gain circumnavigation bonus]?


Anyways, I got the Colossus and it is now 310 AD. I got lucky and I produced a Great Engineer. I had him join the capital(+3 production is a WHOLE lot for that city). Also Earlier I had gotten a Great Merchant I am saving him currently mainly cause I am not sure what to do with him. He can Bulb CoL or I can save him to join a food poor city[such as up by the gold mines]. Or heck I could save him until I am almost ready to war on Darius and use him up for a golden age[that sounds fairly good due to my very very low hammers, it will speed up war prep alot].


Also as a note this was a Medium and Small map for those who were wondering.

And one last question... any other 'water' wonders I should go for? I generally like to pick up the Great Library for the two free scientists[which will help offset my high probability for a Great Merchant due to the wonders currently built]. Pyramids are still up for grabs[WTH?! shouldn't they already be taken] which when combined with the engineer specialist will greatly help me in getting great engineers more often[and they will be USEFUL]].


Edit- Not to long after 310 AD I proved the World was round[5 movement caravals aught to explore what remains of the world pretty fast. Also Chinese are off on there own little group of islands with no one near. Oddly enough they have a number of techs I don't and are the highest score on the map. They have scored several wonders[oracle and hanging gardens being 2 of the ones I have seen thus far. However, there still appears to be a civ off some where.... my caravals will find them soon enough.

 

[futurehermit]

If 'mids were still available you could've considered burning your GE on them. They will tie up your limited production for awhile.

I would say you don't need astronomy early in this game. You can reach your immediate opponents with galleys. Since you have limited production you need to compensate somehow and having the extra commerce in all of your many, many coastal cities--esp with financial--will be huge for you.

If you have a tech advantage you won't need nearly as many troops (less production) to beat up on your neighbours.

With the bonus cover promotion your berserkers are going to be sick! Free combat one, cover, AND amphibious! WOW!

I think you should try to do as much damage with them as you can and then plan to generate a GM or two (you have the wonders for it!) to upgrade them to rifles later to keep up with the goodness (you may lose cover in that case, which sucks I guess, but they will be highly-promoted).

 

[xanadux]

Knowing it was a tiny islands map would have helped. That being the case, there is no problem with the start. Having all 3 seafood plus a happy resource available on your starting island, plus crazy food available in capital and copper nearby ... what more could you want? Get lighthouse and colossus, spam cities, get optics and spam out caravels and galleys. control the seas, pick a target to contain with the caravels, destroy his navy, conquer, rinse, repeat. You really don't need astronomy until the AIs are getting close to frigates, so colossus will be working for a long long time.

 

[ShunNakamura]

If 'mids were still available you could've considered burning your GE on them. They will tie up your limited production for awhile.

I did think about that, but I didn't really feel a need for them, I just happened to have stone traded for and figured that while I was waiting for civil service to be picked up I could try and build them. I was actually sort of hoping I would miss them, more gold to help pay for the upgrades[Upgrading can cost a hefty sum and I didn't have enough saved up for what troops I had[limited production means I didn't want to build 'extra' troops]].

I would say you don't need astronomy early in this game. You can reach your immediate opponents with galleys. Since you have limited production you need to compensate somehow and having the extra commerce in all of your many, many coastal cities--esp with financial--will be huge for you.

Hmm... yeah, I just don't like risking transports being sunk. Though I guess with Nav1 + World is round bonus means even galleys can move from outside cultural boundries to the city itself in one turn or less usually. Also I forgot the Iron Clad doesn't need Astronomy. My plan for the rest in my grap is to spam ironclads to lock them in. Ironclads should hold the coasts for quite a while for me. Because of their superior strength Drill is a good promotion for them, right?

With the bonus cover promotion your berserkers are going to be sick! Free combat one, cover, AND amphibious! WOW!

Heh, yeah I am spamming as many as possible before I pick up gunpowder. Was making 1 in the capital every 2-3 turns and I could easily get CR1&2 so my beserkers were getting 5 promotions right out of the city .


I needed every bit of that though. Mound City was one serious nut to crack.

It was a single square city in the middle of the sea. I couldn't land my seige to decrease the defenses and seige don't get amphibious. I lost a serious number of troops taking that city. That and I lost some of my GOOD troops to ridiculous odds[a 15xp beserker went down with a 98% chance of victory, and 2 other 10 xp beserkers went down with 96% probability..... ]. Mound city does have a Military Academy in it... but I don't think that will help much seeing as how it is surrounded by ocean on all sides :/. Should get some good commerce though. And Sitting Bull is no more[though Churchill funnily enough spawned a Roosevelt Colony ]


Edit- Grenadiers or Rifles as my upgrade for my Beserks?

 

[futurehermit]

you can accompany your galleys with caravels!!!

either grens or rifles would be fine as an upgrade. go with whatever you prefer.

 

[JackOfClubs]

Technically, you don't need Astronomy ... ever. You can get to Combustion and Assembly Line without it and that will give you Transports, Destroyers and Infantry. You can't get Battleships, Tanks or Aircraft (or anything more advanced) but you shouldn't need them. With a Financial leader on an island map and the Colosus, you should be abled to burn down the tech tree and your troops will be attacking Frigates and Riflemen (or at worst Cavalry). I've done this with Elizabeth.

Edit: Err, I'm basing this off the Vanilla tech tree. I'm assuming that particular branch hasn't changed in Warlords and BtS?

 

[ShunNakamura]

I decided to go with rifles due to an abundance of Cuirassier I saw I went with Rifles.

That little island stretch wasn't as bad as I feared. I managed to pick up coal, oil, and uranium just on that little stretch where my capital was[wait.... maybe the coal was with the copper... well either way the coal was real close].

I am currently working my way through Darius; however, my army is really draining my economy[I really regret the loss of both the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse my eco took a HUGE nose dive].

Churchill has spawned another colony[Victoria].

My 4 move Ironclads reign supreme on the coast[Frigates are only slightly cheaper and can't get torn apart by them] and I am preparing an army of my 6 move Frigates and 5 move Ships of the Line to block the ocean.

I am but a few turns from infantry and wondering if I should try for the great General from Facism or run for Transports/Destroyers with combustion. I am leaning towards the Great General since I got sea superiority already[though I guess it wouldn't hurt to have destroyers and transports out while the computer is still using Frigates and Galleons].



I thought about trying to avoid Astronomy but in the end just gave in since the computer was all but willing to give it to me[I think I got it for 100 gold or some such ]. In addition I didn't want to wait until I got transports to launch another attack[as it was the number of Galleys I had is one of my largest drains see as how they don't do much, Galleons eased it just a bit add in the 6 movement of the Galleon and frigate and I can easily catch those who are trying to pillage or droop of troops[Asoka has been annoying me with such for ages now; and with just ironclads he would just retreat back to the ocean.... annoying ].



Also Churchill and that dratted Religious Palace is annoying as can be. He and his vassals hold nearly half the votes. I got just barely 1/3 and Zara has most of the rest[Darius has 30 votes in the Palace so blasting him won't gain me to much but meh]. Anyways he keeps voting us all over the place. Declare war now, now declare peace, declare open borders, declare trade embargo, gah. However, the Palace and its +2 hammers to religious buildings is nice on this map .




Edit- Darius is dead dead and dead. Now I am having issues with my next target. If I attack Churchill I will be effectively declaring war on three people. If I declare on Zara I am messing with the strongest military power on the map. I should have solid enough relations with either/or to declare war without making the other one declare on me. And then there is the backwards Chinese and Indians across the ocean.

 

[futurehermit]

Do you need to do more conquering? Taking out Darius and Sitting Bull must mean you have a fair chunk of land. Any chance of diplo or space victories?

 

[ShunNakamura]

Do you need to do more conquering? Taking out Darius and Sitting Bull must mean you have a fair chunk of land. Any chance of diplo or space victories?

Churchill has more land and population then me[though not as much as he would have had he not split off so many colonies]. In addition while I was conquering Sitting Bull and Darius; Zara went crazy settler wise. So he is nearly as large as Churchill. Most of their cities are of lower quality[Zara is settling on tundra surrounded by ice for goodness sake, and Churchill also has several like that] than mine, but they have MANY more than I do. If I take down Asoka or Mao I will gain several more. Actually if I go after Asoka I will score quite a few free wonders[though I don't recall which ones he had].

So far Zara and Churchill keep randomly grabbing first place and I am holding 2nd steadily. Power wise Zara is first I am second and churchill is third[Indians and Chinese aren't even on the same graph if you get what I mean].



Anyways as for Diplomatic victory that is possible. Churchill and Zara both have 20+ relations with me if I recall. However, the Indians and Chinese have huge negative relations. However, I am f'ed if Zara or Churchill supports one another, I can't out vote the two of them. In addition Churchill WILL be my opponent most likely[and he has two vassals of fair size].


As for space I am not sure of that. My capital can easily outproduce any two of thier cities combined from what I have seen[Angkor Wat + priests + engineer + settling nearly all my Great specialits in the city gives me a heck of a lot of hammers]; in addition if I fire up a scientist heavy eco I should easily be able to out science them. But then the question is what about my army? Without those priests running I will be in a huge deficit if I maintain my current army. However, I am loath to x out even a few of those vets that I have[many around 15+xp].

Btw, is it standard for the English to spam cities all over the place on water maps? He has so many and they overlap or are on 1 or 2 tile islands.... bad bad placement but they are EVERYWHERE.

 

[futurehermit]

Sounds good, keep on conquering.

 

[ShunNakamura]

I decided to go to war with Zara. This is because I saw that I could easily deny him both Oil and Uranium with little effort. In addition I was fairly certian I could take his capital[it just had lots of Airships, frigates, a machine gun, a couple of rifles, and some cavalry defending it]. I sent in 14 17xp Infantry, 2 City Raider 3 Artillery, Several Beserkers that I was planning to upgrade to Machine guns once the city was taken. That was my ground force. On the Seas I had 8 Destroyers and 8 Transports.

At the same time I was shaving off his smaller cities on my borders with a smaller force that also had my Great General in it. 2 Destroyers, 4 20xp Infantry[one of which was a Great General], 1 Transport and 4 Ironclads that were slowly being upgraded through the war. They took 5 of his border cities in 5 turns. In addition his entire navy was nearly wiped out by my destroyers in a mere 10 turns. Destroyers are just sick.... 10 movement?! He has no recourse I can go from my capital to his in 3 turns with them.

Back at the capital I land beside his city[had several troops that weren't amphibious + I had Infantry vs. his Cavalry and Rifles + I out numbered his ground troops]. Zara sends several Cavalry after my stack. First Cavalry wipes out my most powerful Infantry with little damage to itself. The next three Cavs also wipe out my infantry with little damage. His last cav attacks and withdraws while nearly killing my Infantry. Next turn my destroyers finish wiping out his defense boosts. I send in my Artillery. I cause some serious damage but even with 99.8 percent chances both my high level artillery are redlined. I then press in with my infantry. I lose three to 80+% odds. I then wipe the floor with the most of the other defenders. All he has left now are a redlined machinegun and 3 healthy rifles. I have 3 redlined Infantry, 4 yellow infantry, 2 red Artillery, 4 red beserkers, and 2 yellow beserkers. Next turn I throw them all against the city.... and don't manage to even scratch the defenders even with all the troops having 30% plus chance and my healthy infantry having 70+%. Not even an ounce of damage... gah.


And now to the present. I have 5 of his border cities and was ready to take another 4 at least. And then Churchill goes and makes me declare peace with that dratted Palace. Meh, I'll use the time to build another offensive force. My capital can pop City Raider 1, 2, 3, and Barrage Artillery every other turn if I recall right[I got around 100+ hammers in that city without the bonus to military building from police state, bureaucracy and that ilk]. Capital has Ironworks, Westpoint, the Pentagon, and many settled generals[for a total of 17xp with Vassalage and Theocracy for ground troops].

And attached was the power graph. I hesitantly declared war in 1890. Asoka is beginning to worry me however.

 

[ShunNakamura]

Finally got around to finishing it.

Ended up winning a time victory; meh, and I was so close to both domination and diplomatic[I was 60 votes short... gah]. Both Asoka and Mao were my vassals and I had the majority of their land as mine[I just vassalized them at the time because war weariness was getting bad and all that was left was the long and annoying clean up[particularly long on this map.... small useless cities all over the globe to hunt down].



Thanks to everyone for their help.