Is This Exploitive?

[Zardnaar]

On Reddit I saw a job advertised. It was 57k NZD total package value a year (approx 40k usd).

50 hours a week 11 days on 3 days off.

Dairy farming. However the package might also include accomodation actual cash in hand could be a lot less.

Minimum wage here is $21.50 now. Minimum wage 50 hours a week comes in at $55900 ($39000 usd approx).

For me to even consider this I would expect accomodation provided but what a few places do is charge for accomation essentially paying less than minimum wage.

They often use temporary workers for this. It's less than McDonald's wages for us but for them it a few years wages in Vanuatu or wherever.

They have changed the law with salaries to may minimum wage if you work in excess if contracted hours. I had an ex girlfriend once upon a time and in the busy season she was pulling 70-80 hour weeks but getting paid a flat salary.

I was always careful about signing flat rate salaries where the wording was something like "expected 40 hours a week or as required when it's busy". Of course it's always busy except for a month or two in winter. Wife gets $50 an hour outside here contracted hours I usually get time and a half or double time.

Apparently they are having trouble filling the position. Distinct lack of foreigners to exploit atm die to Covid after party but the border will be fully open soon.

 

[Kyriakos]

Can't NZ get a deal with CSA?
Because this doesn't sound all that different.

 

[Zardnaar]

Can't NZ get a deal with CSA?
Because this doesn't sound all that different.

CSA?

 

[Kyriakos]

CSA?

The Confederate States of America!

 

[Zardnaar]

The Confederate States of America!

Ah bad analogy. Even that amount is double the average Greek wages though. And alot of farms pay more than that. Come on over and do some work you can buy razor blades!!!.

You'll be rich (by Greek standards). Moo.

 

[Kyriakos]

I wouldn't emigrate to NZ even if the alternative was certain death

 

[Zardnaar]

I wouldn't emigrate to NZ even if the alternative was certain death

Good money you could buy yourself a wife in Turkey, knock back some brewskies with r16.

Turks finished driving their economy into the ground? "We'll show those Greeks how to really mess up your country".

 

[r16]

actually would advice some caution with buying things jokes . It might stick in ways you wouldn't believe .

 

[Kyriakos]

Besides, I wouldn't spend money on (buying) a wife, come on Zardnaar you are better than this

 

[r16]

can't remember my life when ı wasn't accused of having bought so many affairs .

 

[Farm Boy]

More than I get paid an hour.

 

[Kyriakos]

can't remember my life when ı wasn't accused of having bought so many affairs .

Well fwiw @r16 , I hope we will get to meet in the future. Preferably not in this region ^_^

 

[João III]

They have changed the law with salaries to may minimum wage if you work in excess if contracted hours.

So if I understand correctly, if you work over the 40 hour week (or whatever hours/week the salary is based on), then you're paid minimum wage by the hour? I'm not too familiar with the labor situation in NZ

I had an ex girlfriend once upon a time and in the busy season she was pulling 70-80 hour weeks but getting paid a flat salary.

This is in line with both my personal experience and what I hear from anyone else who's had a salaried position. The salary's based on 40 hours or whatever but they always expect you to go over. They expect you to devalue your own hourly wages. Meanwhile, management is paid more and works fewer hours

I was always careful about signing flat rate salaries where the wording was something like "expected 40 hours a week or as required when it's busy". Of course it's always busy except for a month or two in winter.

Exactly, this is why anytime I'm told a position is salaried, it's an immediate red flag. My first job after university was salaried and it was absolutely exploitive. I didn't put up with it and eventually I was "terminated without cause" since I was actually following the contract we agreed upon. Never doing salaried again and prefer working in a union now

 

[Birdjaguar]

I worked at salaried jobs for 35 years. Sure some weeks I worked over 40 hours with even nights and weekend events. So what? Other weeks were lighter and I could take off early or for personal appointments. In the best cases one finds a job that fits well with your life style and temperament. For some it it will be a tightly controlled clock in and clock world or regular routine. For others, it will be a less defined, more varied work life that includes uncertainty and change. Choose carefully.

 

[MaryKB]

I love working on salary because it gives me so much flexibility. And I know I'm being paid for my work and not my time. I hate clock-watching *shivers*

I can't comment on your job thingy because I have no knowledge of manual labor work. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

 

[AmazonQueen]

It varies with the job.
My father used to manage staff.
The workload he gave them was what he felt could be reasonably done in the 37 hours they were expected to work.
If one of his staff was regularly spending more time than that at work it didn't impress him, it worried him.

 

[Zardnaar]

So if I understand correctly, if you work over the 40 hour week (or whatever hours/week the salary is based on), then you're paid minimum wage by the hour? I'm not too familiar with the labor situation in NZ

This is in line with both my personal experience and what I hear from anyone else who's had a salaried position. The salary's based on 40 hours or whatever but they always expect you to go over. They expect you to devalue your own hourly wages. Meanwhile, management is paid more and works fewer hours

Exactly, this is why anytime I'm told a position is salaried, it's an immediate red flag. My first job after university was salaried and it was absolutely exploitive. I didn't put up with it and eventually I was "terminated without cause" since I was actually following the contract we agreed upon. Never doing salaried again and prefer working in a union now

You get paid whatever your contract says.

But they closed down the salary loophole so if you work extra hours you are supposed to get paid minimum wage if hours worked exceed minimum wage.

My wife's contract is salary but if she works outside her salary hours each hour is $50.

But dairy farms are notorious for exploiting the workers eg advertise 50 hours work you 70 or charge you lots of rent effectively paying you less than minimum.

Of course a few struggle to find workers or get migrants who are kinda stuck there due to visa conditions.

And some employers don't obey the law and wage theft isn't treated that seriously by the courts it's more of a fine if you get caught eg pay the lost wages and a bit extra.

 

[João III]

You get paid whatever your contract says.

But they closed down the salary loophole so if you work extra hours you are supposed to get paid minimum wage if hours worked exceed minimum wage.

My wife's contract is salary but if she works outside her salary hours each hour is $50.

It's good to hear some places are at least attempting to address the issue

But dairy farms are notorious for exploiting the workers eg advertise 50 hours work you 70 or charge you lots of rent effectively paying you less than minimum.

I've read about how in the 19th century, American sharecroppers (many former slaves) also had to pay land owners "rent", which coincidentally meant having to pay the workers less than promised. This sounds similar

Of course a few struggle to find workers or get migrants who are kinda stuck there due to visa conditions.

And some employers don't obey the law and wage theft isn't treated that seriously by the courts it's more of a fine if you get caught eg pay the lost wages and a bit extra.

I wonder if they'd struggle to find workers if they didn't have such a poor reputation. If it were me, I'd say if it sounds suspicious (especially if it's an industry with an already poor reputation) and I wasn't 100% on board, then I'd pass on it. That's just me though, you of course have a much better grasp on the situation. Maybe see about just meeting with them and getting a feel for their operation?

 

[Zardnaar]

It's good to hear some places are at least attempting to address the issue

I've read about how in the 19th century, American sharecroppers (many former slaves) also had to pay land owners "rent", which coincidentally meant having to pay the workers less than promised. This sounds similar

I wonder if they'd struggle to find workers if they didn't have such a poor reputation. If it were me, I'd say if it sounds suspicious (especially if it's an industry with an already poor reputation) and I wasn't 100% on board, then I'd pass on it. That's just me though, you of course have a much better grasp on the situation. Maybe see about just meeting with them and getting a feel for their operation?

I've been avoiding it for years. I've done agriculture when younger in the holidays etc but conditions have gotten worse since 2004/5 when they changed visa laws.

They were never great and I suppose some are better than others. I was shocked at how little rates have changed from the 90's in some cases. Eg bin rates have gone from $25-35 but minimum beage has gone from $8 to $21.

You're better off working in the factories processing the food vs the farm or whatever in most cases IMHO.

 

[João III]

They were never great and I suppose some are better than others. I was shocked at how little rates have changed from the 90's in some cases. Eg bin rates have gone from $25-35 but minimum beage has gone from $8 to $21.

Could someone then wind up in a situation where they lose money working??