Is this game winnable?

[thwak]

Hi I'm a relatively new C3C player and this is the first game I've been at least somewhat successful with on regent.

The problem is, I still think I'm going to lose with the ottomans looking like they're going to close in on space race, and my plans for a cultural victory being implemented poorly.

There is one thing I think I can do to atleast get me back into the running, mainly capture london and go for 80k culture that way, but I don't know if that would be enough.

Hopefully the people here who've been playing this game for over half a decade can tell me what rookie mistakes I made and if this game is even salvageable.

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, thwak.

What victory condition do you want? Or will you just take any victory?

 

[thwak]

I was trying to go for cultural victory.

As I think you can see in the save, I was trying to use thebes to go for a 20k cultural victory, but it looks like thebes won't be able to amass that much culture anytime soon.

So what I'm wondering now is if taking out london would put me in the running for a civilization wide culture victory.

 

[vmxa]

Why are you concerned about a space launch? They are barely in the IA and have the hardest part of the tech tree in front of them.

Capturing London is fine, but will do nothing for a culture win as you will lose all culture structures upon capture. You are in fact ahead in the culture race now.

Get more towns. start with a town by the lake. Put it on the hill between the mountains. Drop one on the grass between the mountain near Memphis. You can put one next to the border with Copenhagen, but it will annoy the Vikes.

Get off the wealth and make lots of cavs. Only in places with a barracks. Get the iron and salt hooked up at all cost now. Make a few pikes prior to the salt coming on line or upgrade some vet spears.

Stop researching Econ and start on Steam and hope you have coal. Gear up to take out England.

Stop making cath, unless you are going for a culture win and even then wait on them till you get more land. You can win with histo or your own launch.

Do sonmething with places like Elephantine. It has everything and cannot use much of it. Why a temple and cath in a size 5 town not growing on regent? Has a granary and not growing that is not useful.

Check all towns with an eye towards getting them to size 12 or size 6 and only build what they can use effectively. Get better troops. Get more land, get all the land on this continent.

 

[GamezRule]

Just marking this for subscription, I will peek at the save later.

 

[shl7070]

I tried a direct military conquest approach but it's tough even against the English. Started to grind their cities with cannons and cavs but that's slow and tedious. Got coventry and the city to the west, destroyed their counter-attack, preparing to take London with combined assault of cannons , cavalry and cav army (got MGL from elite cavalry). It's possible to take England and scandinavia slowly but it's going to be tough, they have rifles, Egypt is in republic and even when they will fall it will be probably too late to win this way.

You do have coal near Giza and I doubled the amount of workers and now railroading, disbanded most spearmen and upgraded the rest to rifles, disbanded cathedrals in towns and stopped building banks,libraries etc.

The income increased from +8 to +50 per turn, conquered ivory from England to get 5 lux.

Surviving is possible as is clearing the continent but after that I don't know what to do.
Maybe vxma magic will help you or with Zerksess approach (like in his game from behind may help).

Warning: All AIs are annoyed and none ready to ally with me right now and that was before the war.

 

[Aabraxan]

At the rate Thebes is going, you won't make a cultural victory, according to CA2. Granted, that will change as you get more culture buildings put into Thebes. At this point, though, Thebes is making 38 culture per turn (projected 2139 AD win date) and your empire is making 143 culture per turn (2151 win date). I'll take a closer look at the save later, but my gut says that you might start looking to the stars for victory. If you do, I'd suggest declaring war on the Ottomans, and bribing everyone into dogpiling them. Once they've weakened both Osman and themselves, you can worry about clearing off your own continent.

 

[Spoonwood]

At the rate Thebes is going, you won't make a cultural victory, according to CA2. Granted, that will change as you get more culture buildings put into Thebes. At this point, though, Thebes is making 38 culture per turn (projected 2139 AD win date) and your empire is making 143 culture per turn (2151 win date). I'll take a closer look at the save later, but my gut says that you might start looking to the stars for victory. If you do, I'd suggest declaring war on the Ottomans, and bribing everyone into dogpiling them. Once they've weakened both Osman and themselves, you can worry about clearing off your own continent.

I think he said 80k.

 

[Aabraxan]

I saw that, but I don't know how to adjust CA2 to account for 80K, or even if I need to. Thebes has 3,386 culture as of 1480 AD. Egypt has 13,076 as of the same date. You and I both know I'm not a culture player, but that doesn't seem like a sure path to culture victory.

 

[shl7070]

At the rate Thebes is going, you won't make a cultural victory, according to CA2. Granted, that will change as you get more culture buildings put into Thebes. At this point, though, Thebes is making 38 culture per turn (projected 2139 AD win date) and your empire is making 143 culture per turn (2151 win date). I'll take a closer look at the save later, but my gut says that you might start looking to the stars for victory. If you do, I'd suggest declaring war on the Ottomans, and bribing everyone into dogpiling them. Once they've weakened both Osman and themselves, you can worry about clearing off your own continent.

And from where get the tech to reach the stars.
Probably from the AI if they could make it. Then there is the problem of getting enough production of SS components, getting money to buy techs etc...

Even if other civs will agree to an alliance against the ottomans and they don't, the ottomans will crush them with spahis, clear their continent quickly and maybe invade others to conquer the world.

I think diplo is the best way. Get the UN at all cost with prebuild THEN dogpile the ottomans or whoever is leading and hope a good vote. If England or Vikings get in the way put them one against the other, sign MPP,ROP with the other then grind the assailant to oblivion.

 

[Aabraxan]

And from where get the tech to reach the stars.

Through self-research and trade. There are probably a couple of ways to do this, but here's my suggestion:
1) DOW Osman.
2) Spend 20 turns building up militarily.
3) Make peace with Osman.
4) Kick the Vikings off my continent & build farms. (I'd consider eliminating the English, but they have they're capable of making lots of gold that I could use.

 

[Aabraxan]

I took a look at thwak's 80K cultural victory game. We all know that culture isn't my strong suit, so I'll look to win this one any way I can.

First things first: The Economy. In 1480 AD, you've only got 108 gold, and +12 gpt, 12 cities, 138 beakers per turn and 5 workers. That's no nearly enough workers. Econ has 0 beakers gathered, and is 9 turns out.

Thwak, I mean no offense by this, but many of the problems that you're facing are the direct result of poor management of the early turns. Head for the War Academy and look for an article called "Opening Plays" by Cracker.

Second, I scroll through cities and start paring things down. This may seem counterintuitive, but I need to beef up the Egyptian economy. I take a look at F1. 50% science. Try to avoid the middle of the road on this one, thwak. Either set research high enough to make some beakers, or low enough to make some gold.

I see that I have no harbor. That won't work. I need to be able to buy some resources. I swap Abydos from a temple to a harbor.

As I scroll through cities, I notice that you have the governor on! Turn the governor off and learn to manage your cities. I turn the governor off.

OK. Since you're trying to generate most of your culture at Thebes, I start there. Sell the walls for 5 gold. No upkeep on walls, but a little extra in the treasury. Disband some units and get the university down to 6 turns out, from 8. I keep most of the improvements.

I see that Memphis has a library, a courthouse, a temple, a cathedral, a university, and it's working on a bank. This kind of building will choke your economy. Build a library, and go for beakers, or build a bank and go for gold, but not both. Markets area separate deal, because of the happiness factor. I have an article in the War Academy on multiplier buildings that might help sort some of the effects of various buildings out for you. Memphis was only 14% corrupt to begin with, so I sell the courthouse. I switch the build to a settler, due in 1. Sell the cathedral. That takes happiness to 4/1/4.

You have no less than 3 spears in every town. That's way more than you need.

Heliopolis -- Turn off the governor, set production for a worker. Sell the cath. Switch one laborer to a scientist until the worker is peeled off.

Elephantine -- turn off the gov, sell the court & walls. Set production to worker.

Alexandria -- has a boatload of shields invested in the university. Scrap a cat to get it in a turn earlier.

Pi-Ramses -- Turn off the gov, sell court, walls, and cath. Set production for rax, with war chariots in mind.

Warwick -- swap cath to rax, due in 2.

Giza -- turn off the gov, sell the court and walls. Set to build a worker.

El-Amarna -- sell the temple and cath.

Hieranconpolis -- swap the spear for a worker.

OK. I've take the economy from 108 gold with +12 gpt to 345 gold and +28. Spend 176 gold to rush the harbor at Abydos.

Hit enter. Selling off all of those caths is going to mean I need to bump lux spending a bit.

NOTE: I see a tile where a mine was built, but no road. As a rule of thumb, never allow a worker to leave a tile without building a road.

Abydos finishes the harbor. I can now buy and sell resources.

Remember that I meant to get off of econ and on to Steam. Make the switch. At 60%, Steam is due in 16 at +0.

Sell off bunches of temples. Adjust lux up and science down.

Build an embassy in Mecca so that I can make an alliance.

Build an embassy in London, where I discover that they're building a courthouse . . .

Discover that a worker is asleep at Pi-Ramses?!? Sound reveille! Put him to work.

DOW Osman. Bribe Abu with Military Tradition to join in. Buy in the vikings. Buy in the Byzantines. Elizabeth is too expensive, so I'll just build up and then go beat on her. Good or bad, I just bought some luxes from her, so that will have to wait 20 turns.

HOLD THE PHONE! I just spotted iron and salt in your territory that isn't hooked up. That will have to be fixed right now.

Start court at Warwick.

Well, I went ahead and played until 1530 AD. I've got iron hooked up for you. Workers are on the saltpeter and roading, so you'll have that soon. I cranked out more workers and settlers. I bought dyes and silks, and a couple of world maps. I got the Vikes, the Byzantines and Arabia to dogpile the Ottomans. They haven't been able to crush the Ottomans, but the Ottmans haven't crushed them either. Thebes should cross the 20K threshhold in 2113 AD, so there's more work to be done there. The 80K goal is out in my save. I simply scrapped too many culture buildings to leave that viable. Play the save out, or not, as you will. If I've made so many changes that you don't care to play from my save, that's fine.

 

[thwak]

Thanks so much for all the advice!

As for why I was building a temple in Abydos instead of a harbor, I was worried about getting culture flipped and figured that the temple would be higher priority than the harbor.

By the governer being turned on I'm assuming you mean that I told the game to manage citizens moods in the cities. I did this because I have had problems with unhappiness in my cities before and I haven't been able to find any good articles or tips on how to manage that aspect of the game. That's also why I don't touch the luxury slider in my games because in the past I've turned it up only to not know when to turn it off.

Again thanks for all the advice. This is my first real attempt at a regent game as all of the games I played previously were on warlord. I was just wondering what I was doing wrong when the game is somewhat competitive.

 

[Aabraxan]

The governor does silly things with citizens, and you can manage them better yourself.
As far as happiness goes, the only thing you really have to do is to make sure that you have at least as many happy citizens as unhappy ones. Content citizens and specialists do not count. A city with 3 unhappy and 3 happy will not riot. If you download some of the popheads that indicate mood, that will help. Once you learn how many content citizens you get at each level, and what some of the other causes of unhappiness are, it's not hard to manage. Hit the Info Center. There's a section on difficulty levels that will tell you how many content citizens you get at Regent (2). Everyone born after that is cranky.

Culture flipping isn't a real problem at Regent. It can happen, but it's not frequent. My solution is simply to push everyone off of my continent.

There's a link in my signature to An Archive of Training Day Games. Reading a few of those might help.

 

[del62]

Had a look at the save in CIV Assist, Thebes has Shakes and is size 7, u need to grow thebes, go rail and irrigate the oasis around thebes to start, and more workers

And another thing more workers

And there is something I forgot, ah yes more workers

 

[del62]

Oh Iron and Saltpeter not hooked up

And I forgot to add more workers

 

[zerksees]

Did not look at the save. I like most of the advice that's been given. However, at Regent you should be able to win with the governor managing citizen moods. If you improve your tiles properly it will pick good tiles and you can go ahead from there. You can win a culture victory through war (not the 20K type). Crush the AI one at a time using the dogpile approach, take all the land, then at the end cram in a bunch of cities and rush temples and maybe cathedrals. It can be done.

Also did not hear much mention of your diplomacy and trading. There is always opportunity here. Love these kinds of challenges but I have to pass for now. Good luck.

 

[RFHolloway]

if you are going 80k the last thing you should be doing is selling the cathedrals!

1) road every tile you are working.
2) build more workers (more workers than cities is a good start)
3) outside of your core pack cities in tight and build culture producing buildings in all of them
4) build military in your core and take more territory - own continent first