Is this wise?

[Bobv13]

I've got a stack of 10 armies all of which contain 4 veteran cossacks (6.3.3) going up against cities with pop gt 6 that are most likely defended by veteran infantry (6.10.1). What do you think the likelihood will be that each attack will succeed in destroying an infantry?

On average I think the needed hit points I'll are (4/(6/(10+6))) * 1.5 or (10.66 X 1.5 = 16. Because my armies have 24 hit points, they should win in
24/(24+16) or 60% of the battles described above.

Is my calculation close? Would you risk it? I really want to destroy China's two largest cities (or more). My plan: Conquer, heal, raze, and go to the next. Without artillery support I'll will the cossack armies be slaughtered? The AI to this point avoids my armies, like they don't exist.

 

[Quintillus]

I would risk it. The odds are actually slightly higher according to The Original Battle Odds Calculator in HTML Format, by Xerxes314. According to that calculator, a Cossack Army with 15 hitpoints would have a 67.7% chance of winning against a Veteran Infantry fortified in a City. Your army should have 16 hitpoints if it is all veterans, which would give it a slightly higher chance. I'm guessing this is a scenario, since you mention a 24-hitpoint army of 4 veterans, but it's still 4 Veteran Cossacks v. a Veteran Infantry, so I'm guessing the odds are still about 68% in your scenario.

The Combat Calculator is designed for Vanilla Civ 3, but works perfectly so long as your attack-defense numbers still match up. Just note that it doesn't guarantee victory - that is up to the RNG, and we all know how finicky it can be.

 

[Chamnix]

There are a couple details that are a bit off. First, since you described Cossacks as a 6/3/3 unit, I assume you are playing C3C. A 4-Cossack Army in C3C would not attack with strength 6; it would be 10 if you don’t have the Military Academy built, or 12 if you do have it built.

The infantry in the Chinese city is certainly fortified and would also get some bonus based on terrain (even if it is on flatland, it gets a 10% bonus). Infantry fortified in a city (size 7-12) on flatland has a defense of 10*(1+0.5+0.25+0.1) = 18.5.

Using a combat calculator (there are some available in the utilities forum), a 16 hp unit with a strength of 10 will win 94% of the time and retreat 2% of the time.

A 16 hp unit with a strength of 12 will win 97% of the time and retreat 1% of the time.

Go kill the Chinese .

 

[Bobv13]

There are a couple details that are a bit off. First, since you described Cossacks as a 6/3/3 unit, I assume you are playing C3C. A 4-Cossack Army in C3C would not attack with strength 6; it would be 10 if you don’t have the Military Academy built, or 12 if you do have it built.

The infantry in the Chinese city is certainly fortified and would also get some bonus based on terrain (even if it is on flatland, it gets a 10% bonus). Infantry fortified in a city (size 7-12) on flatland has a defense of 10*(1+0.5+0.25+0.1) = 18.5.

Yes, I have C3C and I misstated the cossack's base value (should be 6.4.3) but I did not know the military academy added to it or enen the army itself. I have the academy built. I guess I'll go break down some walls. Thanks and for the link too

 

[DBear]

Cossacks are 6.3.3 w/blitz in C3C. But you said you have them in armies, so that advantage is duplicated.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

10 armies... kill, kill.

Might be useful to whistle up some artilleries, anyway.

 

[Bobv13]

10 armies... kill, kill.

Might be useful to whistle up some artilleries, anyway.

I now have 14 armies, 13 built of veteran cossacks. I took 10 along for the march which was about 25 tiles before reaching China. The task was much easier than I had expected. I only came close to loosing one army to China's the fortified infantry. It succeeded having only 2 hit points left.

For now 2 china cities have fallen and I'm currently healing in the second, the first has been razed after sell the improvements. I was hoping China might want to buy back Shanghai but no deal, so it was razed. I'll do some more pillaging, conquering, selling and razing in China before moving on to England.

I thought about taking along artillery and I most often do, but I wanted to move fast and felt that with SOD of 40 Cossacks in 10 armies I could do better without them. I think I have

I've shared this horse shoe shaped continent with 7 rivals from day 1. They all dog piled me centuries ago. I've defeated 3 battling from the north eastern tip to the center of the shoe. Although they are all book smart they are inept tacticians.

The smell of death is in the air, and it lingers above cities of all those who stand in the way of Catherine's great armies.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Cossacks are 6.3.3 w/blitz in C3C. But you said you have them in armies, so that advantage is duplicated.

But blitz isn't that great a buff to cavs anyway. It is nice for early leader fishing if you are playing on a lower level, or fighting a smaller AI, but if those cossacks are trying to hit towns with pikes or muskets, they often won't have enough hp after the first attack to go for a second. Mind you, blitz still beats extra DEF points. But what would have been ideal would be a couple of extra ATT points. Maybe pay some extra shields for them. And if Russia could be IND instead of EXP too. And have a male leader with a turban...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Nothing like blitz to make a stack of elite cavs fast Pick on a crappy AI, especially one without iron and you get longbows and spears

 

[Bobv13]

I'm not sure if this is hard coded or just by chance but if a veteran Cossack and succeeds in defeating the opposing force twice in a turn, the Veteran gets promoted to Elite. When you've always got elites to fight with there are going to be plenty of GL.

 

[psweetman1590]

That's hardcoded. If a unit wins two battles on the same turn, it's automatically promoted. Yet another reason why blitz can be a killer.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

It works that way, too, if you attack a unit, then it attacks you, too.

 

[Quintillus]

That's hardcoded. If a unit wins two battles on the same turn, it's automatically promoted. Yet another reason why blitz can be a killer.

Neat fact. Never knew that.

There are a couple details that are a bit off. First, since you described Cossacks as a 6/3/3 unit, I assume you are playing C3C. A 4-Cossack Army in C3C would not attack with strength 6; it would be 10 if you don’t have the Military Academy built, or 12 if you do have it built.

What? A 4-Cossack Army still has an attack strength of 6, it just has more hitpoints than an individual cossack. The Military Academy allows the fourth Cossack to join it; Conquests increases its movement by one. Neither increases its attack strength.

 

[Aabraxan]

What? A 4-Cossack Army still has an attack strength of 6, it just has more hitpoints than an individual cossack. The Military Academy allows the fourth Cossack to join it; Conquests increases its movement by one. Neither increases its attack strength.

From the Basics of Armies:

* The attack and defense of the army is a tricky part. The formula for this is:

Attack = A+(TA/N)

where

A is the attack of the unit currently doing the fighting.

TA is the attacks of all the units added together.

N is 4 if you own the military academy, else just 6.

This formula is rounding fractions down. To find the defense just use this and replace attack with defense (pretty obvious). Note that when right clicking an army it doesn't show it's attack and defense as it really is, only the unmodified attack and defense.

So a 4-Cossack Army without the Military Academy would have an attack of: 6+[(6*4)/6]=10. With the MA, you get 12.

 

[bustedsynapses]

Btw, if the situation were a little different, and the defenders were even tougher, or your armies weaker, then try this. Bring along a bunch of obsolete, weak units. Use them as bait. (I almost never upgrade). The enemy will sortie to slay them, and you can kill those that sortie. Cuts the odds down dramatically, not to mention increasing your cashflow, as you no longer have to support the now-dead units.

Don't think of it as having taken heavy casualties in battle. You were just simplifying your command structure.

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

Armies are so cool. But yes, moving obsolete units or workers outside their city will make them leave, and you'll just capture the workers back anyway, so go at it. Or bomb it with arty and then attack. Assured victory.

 

[AznWarlord]

Seeing as how the RNG hates you, and by you I mean me but the other way around ( ) , you might end up really pissed off, but it's worth a shot. I mean, you have higher odds fighting a Vet Infantry than a Vet Spearman . But seriously, cossacks are a bit dated by now (the Ottoman UU for Cavs right?) so you might as well throw them away because the upgrade path ends, I think.

You should start looking forward to tanks, tank armies are always more threatening.

 

[Aabraxan]

But seriously, cossacks are a bit dated by now (the Ottoman UU for Cavs right?) . . . .

The Russians get cossacks; the Ottmans get Sipahis.