1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

is Tithe a no-brainer?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Autoclave, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Autoclave

    Autoclave Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    Do you ppl think that Tithe is a little bit way too good for a founder belief? Why is Faith and Culture founder beliefs are per citizens in other civs while Tithe lets you have that gold from your population as well?

    this thing always makes Tithe more attractive than other founder beliefs.
     
  2. Scarpa

    Scarpa Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    476
    I have a really, really hard time taking anything but Tithe, assuming it's available. I think the only time I passed it up was in favor of a happy belief when playing Persia.
     
  3. MaximusK

    MaximusK Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    New Mexico
    The other civilizations are way too focused on religions. If your fighting their religions spreading into your territory the whole game it is going to be difficult to get enough of YOUR religion into any other civ to actually benefit you with any of those types of founder beliefs.

    I can see maybe Byzantines taking something that adds for your religion elsewhere because they can hook up a killer spread with their bonus belief.
     
  4. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain, Europe
    Yeah, agree... with the happiness nerf is a no brainer, maybe pilgrinage have its uses too for heavy faith use, but for conventional resource benefit, tithe has not contester.
     
  5. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,177
    Location:
    STL
    Yeah, since Gods and Kings I've been taking Tithe just about every game, and I've expected the devs to balance the other founder beliefs to make other ones competitive, but they haven't. Tithe is just far and away superior to the other beliefs and I can't believe they haven't balanced them yet (and now, I assume they probably never will). In the right situation, some of the other ones can be useful, but there's never a bad situation for Tithe, and the other ones require some strategy to get the most out of them. You don't even need to think about Tithe.
     
  6. NinjaGnat

    NinjaGnat Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Messages:
    86
    Yes.

    Tithe a cultural, food, happiness and faith bonus all rolled into one thanks to bribing city states. On top of that, it even applies if you don't spread your religion outside your empire.
     
  7. Scott Jegg

    Scott Jegg Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    267
    I always prefer initiation rights, because it gets me cash at the beginning of the game when I need it most for buying universities and other important buildings. For cash generation, Tithe will win in the long run if religious spread is going well, but by the time the cash is pouring in, I'm generally at a point where I'm already making plenty from other facets.
     
  8. Rathelon

    Rathelon Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    423
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Just a little philosophical aside; everyone will favor one belief over another just because of their personality and/or goals. I don't think it always means one thing is better than everything else, it just becomes a psychological block because you view it only from one perspective.

    I always take Peace Gardens, because it's a cheap building to get 2 happiness per city from a building that is otherwise relatively unattractive to me. I don't think that makes it the best or an
    unbalanced belief - it's just the one that works for me to help keep my empire happy.
     
  9. seasnake

    seasnake Conquistador

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,880
    Location:
    California, United States
    Sorry, but always a sorry second to Papal Primacy, take that and consulate, spread religion and be friends with tons of city states with no maintenance. Get a bunch of food, culture, happiness, and military units. combine with pledge to protect and you can make allies with minimal expenditure.

    Tithing is my number two.
     
  10. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    I like Tithe if I didn't found a religion for my Founder and I don't expect to spread my religion. If I can spread then I totally love Pilgrimage. Ceremonial Burial is still great if you're going wide too, it's just not as good as it used to be.
     
  11. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Messages:
    486
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    If you have a high faith output Initiation wins by far. Early universities can outweigh some 20gpt from tithe end game.
     
  12. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,175
    I always go for tithe, its a killer on huge maps. All other beliefs is just silly. If i don't get tithe, I reroll. If a game go on long enough and I don't neglect religion, tithe can rake in 100-200gpt easily for me. I've yet to paint the whole world in my religion so i dun dunno income for whole world with tithe yet. xD but i'm assuming 1kgpt easy. Way more delicious than 1 happy face per city. If That happy face religion was something like 4-10 happiness per city then I would be forced to think very hard between tithe and happy face. But probably end up picking happy face if it's 10 happiness per city. xD
     
  13. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    11,697
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Tithe is much more powerful on higher difficulties, where the AI civs will found cities at lightening speed and their city populations will grow quickly and support large numbers of followers. At lower levels, the AI founds fewer cities, founds them more slowly, and grows the cities much more sluggishly. In those cases, Church Property, which gets you a flat 2 gpt per city, can be more attractive.

    It also depends on how long you expect the game to run. If you are aiming for a sub-T200 domination win, Initiation Rites may be the best choice of all.
     
  14. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    I always go Tithe and I'm on standard size maps; and for the cash from my own cities; anything produced by cities I don't own is just gravy.
     
  15. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain, Europe
    Yeah, Tithe (and church property to a lesser extent) has no contest also because:

    - If you need extra happiness, you have +2 from temples/ pagodas.
    - If you want culture, cathedrals are great.
    - If you want extra CS aliances, extra gold is more flexible than papal primacy.
     
  16. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Not only is tithe a no-brainer but AI refuses to get it. I'm yet to see a religious AI get tithe. Highest gpt I got from tithe is 120gpt. AI tends to get faith and culture-based founder beliefs. Sometimes they get church property.
     
  17. Sturmgewher88mm

    Sturmgewher88mm Kaiser

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    388
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    石川琉球
    Tithe is great. Can't use religion without it.
     
  18. Byzantine Bomb

    Byzantine Bomb Warlord

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Pretty much. I choose it every time I can.
     
  19. DarthSheldonPhD

    DarthSheldonPhD Warlord

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    202
    So far every BNW game where I found a religion I've done tithe. Just to play devil's advocate, though, CB still has alot of value if you can get past the mental block we all have that it is half as effective as it used to be, mostly because not only has CB been nerfed, just about ALL happiness generation has been nerfed: theaters have been directly substituted with zoos and produce 1 less happiness, stadiums produce 2 less happiness, rationalism no longer has any policies that cover happiness, the effects of Forbidden Palace are only available if you unlock Patronage, and so on. Furthermore, the effects of unhappiness have been increased; production and combat penalties go into effect at -1 instead of -10 and rebels show up at -10 where it used to be -20 (I think, never saw rebels before BNW...)
    You do get a big relief when ideologies kick in, particularly Order, but I usually try to wrap up domination games before ideologies take effect. In both domination games that I've done so far, I've had to intentionally slow my progress when taking the first five capitals, and just throw caution to the wind and accept rebels when taking the final two, and that's with every happiness "out" used: pagodas/religious center temple in every city, coliseum/zoo/stadium in every city, tradition maxed out, patronage opened for FP, Notre Dame conquered, allied with all mercs and other CSs with new luxes, SW and circuses where available and circus maximus... all that still insufficcient. At that point, the extra gold was helpful but not needed, the extra 10-15 happiness would have went a long way.
     
  20. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    I thought religion was terrible until that one time I decided to try Tithe. It's by far the strongest founder belief, especially on higher difficulties.
     

Share This Page