Is Trump mentally unfit for the presidency to the point that he ought be removed from office?

[hobbsyoyo]

Did he apologize for attacking and bringing horrible amounts of negative attention to the other May?

He doesn't even have Sanders apologize for him when he missteps. His lack of empathy or remorse is telling of his psychosis. In answer to the OP, he is not mentally fit to be the President and I wish the Cabinet would vote him out.

 

[Broken_Erika]

He could probably strip naked in the oval office and smear feces on the walls, wipe his arse with the flag and blow his nose with the constitution live on T.V. and the republicans still wouldn't do anything about it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

"I abhor the term Native American" - Lakota activist Russell Means

Yeah, that aint why Russell Means finds "Native American" abhorent. Now, why do you advise me (us) to use native american instead of Indian? Well, consider why Russell Means finds your preference abhorent. Would you call a Jew, Nazi? What Americans did to the Indians was Nazi-esque. Okay, would you settle for really really bad, evil? You get the point. Dont call Russell Means a native american. Now whats so upsetting about Indian? Some guy got lost and thought he found India?

No thanks, Indian is just fine with me... But you think about Russell Means the next time you lecture anyone about rubbing people the wrong way... So what are you going to do? I mean, what name will use to identify Indians now that you know how people feel about being called Native American?

Russell Means is one Indian. He has one opinion. I spent 12 years working with tribes in NM. there is no consensus about what they want to be called: Native Americans, Indians, Pueblo People, tribal people or their particular tribe or pueblo. It seems to depend upon the circumstances or context of the conversation. Russell Means had his own agenda and way of doing things. Not every Indian feels the same.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But thinkprogress and Trevor Noah are right wing sources?

No, Breitbart is, and that's where the crap you dump on the rug here comes from nine times out of ten. I go there frequently because they don't have a problem with me calling white supremacist lying scum exactly what they are, so I recognize the crap you bring when you bring it to your protected safe space to dump on the rug.

Now, go ahead and check in with Bannon and get another load.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

No, that was my point... Traitor Fish said lumping native americans into one blob called "Injuns" was offensive... He seems to be under the impression "Indians" is a derogatory term but apparently its okay to lump them into one blob called native americans. I imagine a few Indians might object to being called americans, 'we' didn't treat them too well. I'd say both them and black people have good reason for not standing for the anthem or flag. Course they dont all agree on that either, I guess that depends some on how much pain their ancestors suffered... The Navajo and Hopi were spared the worst because nobody wanted their land enough to kill them off and take it.

Words and phrases that are considered okay in one decade may not be considered suitable in another. When I took anthropology in college in the '80s and '90s, there was a course I took that dealt with the "Native North Americans." That encompassed a geographical area from the Inuit to the Mayans of Central America. We didn't talk about the South American natives at all.

I remember mentioning this course to one of my sociology classmates, and that my then-current term paper was about the Navajo and Hopi beliefs and ceremonies. He promptly demanded to know why I wasn't writing about Canadian "Indians."

I told him that to them, during the time frame my paper encompassed, the concept of "Canadian" and "American" was meaningless. Neither country existed, and even if they had, they were meaningless to the native peoples I was studying.

Yes, there are aboriginal people who object to being referred to nowadays as "American" or "Canadian." There are a lot of them in Quebec who have said that if Quebec separates, they're not separating along with it.

Has anyone used the word "Injuns" in this thread? (Other than you, that is)

I've been doing it all along (except when specifically discussing the Cherokee), TF complained - he said it rubbed people the wrong way. You should direct your first question to him.

Dont call them Indians because thats offensive, call them Native Americans instead. Well, who slaughtered the Indians? Oh yeah, the Americans. Thats even worse than naming slaves after their owners. Some dont mind, some do... If I was Indian I might not feel so honored being named after the genocidal maniacs who killed my people. I'd prefer my tribal or clan name, but like you said, that becomes impractical when discussing a large group of people encompassing a continent.

"Native Americans" refers to geography, not countries. My anthropology courses that mentioned native Americans encompassed all of North/Central America. If the scope of the course had been more far-reaching, it would have included South America as well, but that's far too much to cram into one course.

 

[Traitorfish]

Words and phrases that are considered okay in one decade may not be considered suitable in another. When I took anthropology in college in the '80s and '90s, there was a course I took that dealt with the "Native North Americans." That encompassed a geographical area from the Inuit to the Mayans of Central America. We didn't talk about the South American natives at all.

Additionally, there are people such as native Hawaiians, who are indigenous to the United States of America but who are not indigenous to the Americas; people who are native and American, but not Native American.

When you do any amount of research, as Berzerker clearly has not, it's easy to see how the nomenclature can get fairly complicated fairly quickly.

 

[Berzerker]

Russell Means is one Indian. He has one opinion. I spent 12 years working with tribes in NM. there is no consensus about what they want to be called: Native Americans, Indians, Pueblo People, tribal people or their particular tribe or pueblo. It seems to depend upon the circumstances or context of the conversation. Russell Means had his own agenda and way of doing things. Not every Indian feels the same.

I know there's no consensus, thats why I dont lecture people about it... unless someone lectures me. Traitor Fish said Indian rubs people the wrong way so I should call them Native Americans. I wanted TF to understand very clearly why I reject his advise. Russell Means doesn't speak for himself, he speaks for me and everyone else who cant deny his logic. Can you deny it? Explain why he's wrong. I'd be insulting him if I called him Native American, but Traitor Fish says I'm insulting him if I call him Indian instead. Quite a dilemma... I'm hoping TF will lead me to enlightenment.

No, Breitbart is, and that's where the crap you dump on the rug here comes from nine times out of ten. I go there frequently because they don't have a problem with me calling white supremacist lying scum exactly what they are, so I recognize the crap you bring when you bring it to your protected safe space to dump on the rug.

Now, go ahead and check in with Bannon and get another load.

If thats why you got banned, aren't you tempting fate? I dont think you're gonna be around long and your last departure made this place less fun. You hang out there, not me... I might have been there once because someone here linked to them - probably you. Didn't you start a thread about your trolling Breitbart?

Now thats ironic, I've never linked to Breitbart and you're a regular there. But I'm tempted to join, sounds like a fun forum if they unleash trolls. I dont belong to any political forums, just civ and sports and I'm too lazy and forgetful to change my name. Do they have a Berzerker? Btw, how did you refute the New England Genealogical Society analysis at Breitbart? Did you just call them names?

My sources were already posted in this thread, Thinkprogress and the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. The New England Genealogical Society (linked by Zkribbler?) is not Breitbart. If you've already read about Warren at Breitbart, did you ignore their sources too? Maybe you shouldn't be complaining about their credibility, sounds like their source is the same one my sources are using. Experts looked at her family records going back over 200 years and found no Indian ancestry.

Its still possible, Pocahontas lived much further back and many Cherokee claim descent. But the only thing that will save her on this one is actual documentation - people who say she doesn't need it are wrong, when you claim Indian ancestry and profit from it you had better be Indian. What do you think would happen to Warren if she was using tribal benefits? They'd laugh at Pocahontas and kick her butt out the door followed by a lawsuit.

Yes, there are aboriginal people who object to being referred to nowadays as "American" or "Canadian." There are a lot of them in Quebec who have said that if Quebec separates, they're not separating along with it.

Aboriginal... Harder to say than Indian but I'd bet it has the fewest objections of all the options, maybe. Course maybe the real aborigines wouldn't appreciate the demotion. I mean, some came early and some came late. The Hopi were not exactly thrilled when the Navajo showed up.

Has anyone used the word "Injuns" in this thread? (Other than you, that is)

Of course, I was quoting Traitor Fish. Thats how we got on this debate, he said it was offensive to use the word Indian ("Injun" was his term).

When you do any amount of research, as Berzerker clearly has not, it's easy to see how the nomenclature can get fairly complicated fairly quickly.

Did you do any research on how Native American rubs people the wrong way before telling us to call them Native Americans? Watching you paint yourself into a corner with a smug political correctness is entertaining, please continue...

Sorry, Tim's rubbing off on me

Knowing how Russell Means feels about your 'nomenclature', would you call him a Native American anyway?

 

[caketastydelish]

Did he apologize for attacking and bringing horrible amounts of negative attention to the other May?

He doesn't even have Sanders apologize for him when he missteps. His lack of empathy or remorse is telling of his psychosis. In answer to the OP, he is not mentally fit to be the President and I wish the Cabinet would vote him out.

Sorry, but as someone who knows a thing or two about this, this isn't true. Him having a horrible personality and being a bad person is not "telling of his psychosis". Furthermore, those sort of statements and generalizations damage those who legitimately suffer from mental illness and unlike Trump, for the most part, haven't hurt anyone.

I'm personally scared to have him impeached because the Nazis will think the jews/establishment/blacks/etc "did" this and they'll cause havoc left and right. The most peaceful solution is let him finish his term and have him be defeated. But sadly I'm not sure if the Democrats can manage that. They really should be more aggressive and attack Trump and promote their own platform instead of "we're just less offensive, therefore we win". Most conservatives and even some "independents" are just not going to vote for you, get over it. However, there is a significant portion of the Democratic base that knows when it's been betrayed and will betray you back.

edit: Trump also has the advantage of being hated by lots of people, including Republicans in the house and senate. Mike Pence won't have that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You hang out there, not me... I might have been there once because someone here linked to them - probably you.

Just about every time you start one of your troll threads it's a topic featured on Breitbart the same day. If you aren't picking up your "hot topic" from there first hand you are getting them from some other outlet of the echo chamber. Either way dragging it in here is rude. You should find a place for "no holds barred trolling" instead of trying to ruin a sociable forum with your antics. But of course that's your intent, also handed down direct from Bannon or picked up second hand.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I know there's no consensus, thats why I dont lecture people about it... unless someone lectures me. Traitor Fish said Indian rubs people the wrong way so I should call them Native Americans. I wanted TF to understand very clearly why I reject his advise. Russell Means doesn't speak for himself, he speaks for me and everyone else who cant deny his logic. Can you deny it? Explain why he's wrong. I'd be insulting him if I called him Native American, but Traitor Fish says I'm insulting him if I call him Indian instead. Quite a dilemma... I'm hoping TF will lead me to enlightenment.

Obviously I don't speak for him (Traitorfish). He's quite capable of speaking for, and explaining himself. He's got a good point about the Hawaiians; that's an example I never thought of, since Hawaii isn't a place I think of very often.

Aboriginal... Harder to say than Indian but I'd bet it has the fewest objections of all the options, maybe. Course maybe the real aborigines wouldn't appreciate the demotion. I mean, some came early and some came late. The Hopi were not exactly thrilled when the Navajo showed up.

We're not supposed to call them "aboriginal" anymore. The current PC term in Canada is "Indigenous" and it's really irritating because it's so easy to misspell.

I wish they'd make up their minds. Just pick a term and stick to it.

 

[Traitorfish]

I know there's no consensus, thats why I dont lecture people about it... unless someone lectures me. Traitor Fish said Indian rubs people the wrong way so I should call them Native Americans. I wanted TF to understand very clearly why I reject his advise. Russell Means doesn't speak for himself, he speaks for me and everyone else who cant deny his logic. Can you deny it? Explain why he's wrong. I'd be insulting him if I called him Native American, but Traitor Fish says I'm insulting him if I call him Indian instead. Quite a dilemma... I'm hoping TF will lead me to enlightenment.

Wait, wait, hold on, so all this comes down to you not understanding that "Indian" and "Injun" are different words with different connotations?

Christ on a bike.

 

[Berzerker]

Just about every time you start one of your troll threads it's a topic featured on Breitbart the same day. If you aren't picking up your "hot topic" from there first hand you are getting them from some other outlet of the echo chamber. Either way dragging it in here is rude. You should find a place for "no holds barred trolling" instead of trying to ruin a sociable forum with your antics. But of course that's your intent, also handed down direct from Bannon or picked up second hand.

The study of Warren's ancestry was back during the 2012 election, why am I so late to the show? When did Breitbart link to it? Sounded like this was old news to you. I just saw the story on Trevor Noah's show a few nights ago, the same night I mentioned it here. I even recommended watching a repeat and I think Zkribbler was the one who posted the information about the New England Genealogical Society's analysis. I misheard Noah and thought he said Historical Society. How long ago did you see the story at Breitbart? Thinkprogress and Comedy Central are Breitbart echo chambers? You're sociable? You're on a crusade.

Obviously I don't speak for him (Traitorfish). He's quite capable of speaking for, and explaining himself.

I know, I was just explaining what happened. He was objecting to the use of Indian instead of Native American because "Injuns" rub people the wrong way.

We're not supposed to call them "aboriginal" anymore. The current PC term in Canada is "Indigenous" and it's really irritating because it's so easy to misspell.

And you're right, I already butchered 'abhorrent' and I started typing indigenous and got 3 letters in and had to look at your post. Thats even tougher to say than aborigine too, but it might be the least offensive and all-encompassing. Be interesting if Indians have taken polls, I imagine many are just so used to their local names and Indian as a more general term, they'd prefer the easiest one to say and spell, it served Asian Indians well a very long time

Wait, wait, hold on, so all this comes down to you not understanding that "Indian" and "Injun" are different words with different connotations?

Christ on a bike.

Here's what you said: "Lumping all Native Americans into one big blob called "Injuns" is pretty reductive and therefore likely to rub people the wrong way."

Nobody called them "Injuns", you were responding to me and my use of the word Indians and thats how you spelled it because you think racists use Indian as a derogatory term, right? So you were expressing your dislike for the word Indian, correct? What were you saying? First Pocahontas becomes a racial slur and now Indian rubs people the wrong way. You'd rather call them Native American even though that lumps them into one blob and rubs people the wrong way. Well, thats probably going to be true for any name - even one Indians choose.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Sorry, but as someone who knows a thing or two about this, this isn't true. Him having a horrible personality and being a bad person is not "telling of his psychosis". Furthermore, those sort of statements and generalizations damage those who legitimately suffer from mental illness and unlike Trump, for the most part, haven't hurt anyone.

I deserved to be called on that, thank you.

I would note that this is the subject of the thread and while I should not try and play armchair psychologist and try and diagnose him, I do think there is a mountain of evidence that the man is less than sane.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I deserved to be called on that, thank you.

I would note that this is the subject of the thread and while I should not try and play armchair psychologist and try and diagnose him, I do think there is a mountain of evidence that the man is less than sane.

I'd just like to point out that the thread title is "mentally unfit," not "insane." The reason that is important is because it is absolutely possible that D'ump is perfectly sane and still totally unfit.

Consider:

In D'ump's life there has been no advantage to knowing or telling the truth, ever. As a child his father's wealth shielded him from any consequence. If I had told my classmates the bloop single I hit in a baseball game was a home run I'd have been mocked. If I had insisted on it long enough and hard enough some short tempered youngster would likely have given me the schoolyard thrashing that would set me straight. But D'ump's wealth provides him with a different reality...a reality that he is perfectly adapted to. That adaptation makes him unfit to be president, but his responses, given the reality he lives in, are perfectly sane.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I admit though that I was too loose with my language. Calling his affliction a psychosis is on that borderline where it implies an actual diagnosis as if I were an expert on the subject. And I can see that it would be seen as denigrating those with actual mental illnesses by conflating multiple issues and seeming to make light of the situation.

That was not my intent and I do take the criticism seriously and apologize.

By 'less than sane', I was trying to get at the fact that he is mentally unfit for office while avoiding naming what his explicit illness is (because I don't know). I would like to go further than just claiming he is mentally unfit because that charge could be leveled against a large swath of the population unfairly. Lincoln was a seriously depressed individual, after all and many would use that to gain political leverage against him if he were alive today.

I think there is a line between 'seriously stupid, incompetent and corrupt' and insane in some fashion. I think both apply to Trump but I should do a better job of picking my words going forward. I would also state to your example that at some point those responses are not in fact sane. Sure, people can have different outcomes in the real world based on their privileged but there is a line where the responses are based on an unreal world, if that makes sense.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think there is a line between 'seriously stupid, incompetent and corrupt' and insane in some fashion. I think both apply to Trump but I should do a better job of picking my words going forward. I would also state to your example that at some point those responses are not in fact sane. Sure, people can have different outcomes in the real world based on their privileged but there is a line where the responses are based on an unreal world, if that makes sense.

It makes sense, but the issue is that his responses are "correct" based on his point of view. He can turn a bloop single into a home run just by saying it often enough. So how is his world "unreal"?

"The danger is made clear. They will lie to you until you lie to yourself and you submit to them forever."

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I mean yeah, to the insane their world view is correct and real. That doesn't make it so.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

D'ump is doing the same thing he has always done and expecting to get the same results. What is insane about that?

Us electing him and expecting anything else from him may have been insane...but that's not his issue.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And you're right, I already butchered 'abhorrent' and I started typing indigenous and got 3 letters in and had to look at your post. Thats even tougher to say than aborigine too, but it might be the least offensive and all-encompassing. Be interesting if Indians have taken polls, I imagine many are just so used to their local names and Indian as a more general term, they'd prefer the easiest one to say and spell, it served Asian Indians well a very long time

Okay, first of all, "aborigine" is not a word we ever use in Canada. That's a word we were taught was applicable to the people native to Australia, before the Europeans came there.

As mentioned, different groups have different preferences on what they want to be called. It's annoying. Just pick one and stick with it. It's tiresome to be told every year or two on CBC.ca that a new word is the "proper" one now and if we use older ones, we shouldn't be surprised to see our posts pinked.

 

[Berzerker]

That's the "advertising" that the scumbags in the right wing echo chamber are making such a big deal out of. Because when a democrat makes that simple statement it is SOOOOOO much worse than red line districting blacks out of your buildings, or race baiting every minority there is from the comfort of the oval office. The grotesque hypocrisy of your sources makes it really hard to take you seriously.

Yes, one of us noticed that the crap you dragged in and dropped on the rug was linked by Breitbart today. If you are gonna join Bannon's propaganda ministry list the fact in your sig.

LOL...who's this "we," white man? Most people don't have a reliable genealogy for themselves going back more than three or four generations. Yet you claim to have a reliable genealogy for someone you've never even met going back 200 years.

Once again, the credibility of your sources in the right wing echo chambers is ZERO, so dragging that crap in here and dropping it on the carpet is extremely rude.

No, Breitbart is, and that's where the crap you dump on the rug here comes from nine times out of ten. I go there frequently because they don't have a problem with me calling white supremacist lying scum exactly what they are, so I recognize the crap you bring when you bring it to your protected safe space to dump on the rug.

Now, go ahead and check in with Bannon and get another load.

So after that lesson in civility you got really upset by this:

"Sorry, Tim's rubbing off on me"

I'd think all your trolling at Breitbart would have given you a thicker skin

Just about every time you start one of your troll threads it's a topic featured on Breitbart the same day. If you aren't picking up your "hot topic" from there first hand you are getting them from some other outlet of the echo chamber. Either way dragging it in here is rude. You should find a place for "no holds barred trolling" instead of trying to ruin a sociable forum with your antics. But of course that's your intent, also handed down direct from Bannon or picked up second hand.

I didn't start the thread, I never started a thread about Warren. I never started a thread with a Breitbart link... According to your logic, all news stories from every source out there is automatically invalidated if you see it at Breitbart. Is the Boston Globe a Breitbart echo chamber too? Apparently they were reporting on Warren's problem back in 2012...