Is Trump's golf-swing hitting Hillary GIF sexist?

Narz said:
People who brag about sexual assault don't get to hug my wife, most other people are OK but keep your hips back.
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What sexual assault you are talking about? I must have missed it.
 
civver_764 said:
Man I remember when the left had a sense of humor. Like...do you guys get that he's not literally threatening to hit you with a golf ball? It's just friendly competition sort of thing. Childish? Sure, but life is not that serious. Politics needs a little lightening up every now and then.
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The thing about a sense of humor is it means one can also sense when a thing isn't funny.
 
Do we really need to re-up the Access Hollywood video for you? It was kind of a big deal, how could you possibly have missed it?
 
“I’m automatically attracted to beautiful women — I just start kissing them, it’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," he said in the 2005 conversation. "Grab 'em by the pussy."

I'm sure it's totally coincidental that he was accused of doing exactly the thing he bragged about doing! I also believe that more women than Stoynoff have come forward to accuse him of similar behavior.
 
metalhead said:
Do we really need to re-up the Access Hollywood video for you? It was kind of a big deal, how could you possibly have missed it?
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Well. That wasn't bragging about sexual assault, but that's by the by. The point is that the link clearly isn't an example of what it was seemingly claimed to be.
 
Manfred Belheim said:
Well. That wasn't bragging about sexual assault, but that's by the by. The point is that the link clearly isn't an example of what it was seemingly claimed to be.
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The link provides context to what he said.

I'm also not sure how it's not bragging about sexual assault to say that being a star means you can start kissing women and grabbing their genitals, and they won't resist? What would you call that?
 
Manfred Belheim said:
Well. That wasn't bragging about sexual assault, but that's by the by. The point is that the link clearly isn't an example of what it was seemingly claimed to be.
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“I’m automatically attracted to beautiful women — I just start kissing them, it’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything...Grab 'em by the pussy."

-Donald Trump, totally not bragging about sexual assault
 
Manfred Belheim said:
How do you see someone making an unproven claim as him bragging about it?
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The bragging, of course, is proven by the Access Hollywood tape. You already knew about it. And I knew that you already knew about it. But what changes it from 'locker room talk' to 'bragging' is that it turns out that he was describing something that he'd actually done.

I know you think of this as 'an unproven claim', and I am not going to argue evidence with someone with that type of attitude regarding sexual assault. Her story is essentially the poster child of how sexual assault is commonly occurring, even now. She reported to trusted advisors, they suggest she clam up and leave the situation and leave the scenario because he's too powerful ... and then she moved on. This isn't a woman who 'suddenly came forward years later'. This is a woman who immediately sought advice on how to handle the situation, and then had to do what most sexual assault victims do - shut up, leave, and pretend it didn't happen.

Mechanical hasn't followed the story, because he's more interested in glancing at an article to find reason to disbelieve it than actually consider what constitutes a sufficiently plausible sexual assault claim.
 
Trump also insinuated that the "Second Amendment People" would take care of Hillary if she won. He literally made a veiled threat against her life on a debate stage.
 
The interesting thing about the "grab them by the pussy"-thing is that so many people are complicit. In first instance many of the women who are target of such behavior have a part in it, because yes, so many of them DO let rich and powerful men touch them in what they would in most cases perceive as sexual assault, and smile while it's happening, knowing that they'll get something out of it. Then there are all the people who tell people who do get assaulted and want to do something about it instead of profiting from it to stay quiet and not ruffle any feathers... in the end, that's why a stupid and egocentric person like Trump does probably not even perceive it as sexual assault and thinks it's just fine.

Queue the inevitable "Oh, so you think Trump is the victim here?!" comments!
 
The line at the bottom should read, "Queue the inevitable blaming the (female) victim comments."
 
You might want to totally re-write that list so that you don't only mention victims and the people who try to help the victims in an unjust world.
 
stinkubus said:
The line at the bottom should read, "Queue the inevitable blaming the (female) victim comments."
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No, I think this comment is fine, because you are right. I am indeed blaming the victims (those who are actively complicit, not those who would want to change what is happening) for taking part in the system, as everybody should.

El_Machinae said:
and the people who try to help the victims
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Are you seriously claiming the people who tell victims to stay quiet are "trying to help them"? Because they're not helping, they're complicit in keeping the system in place, a person who truly wanted to help, would ruffle as many feathers as possible to bring the system down to stop this accepted form of victimization all-together.
 
Let's separate between motivation and outcome. The professor and the editor who told her to clam up and walk away were trying to look out for her best interests. That their individualized responses make the aggregate worse doesn't change that their motivation was to help the victim in that incident.

It's an example where each person behaving rationally makes the aggregate worse. This happens all the time.

And you should totally rewrite your[mental] list so that you're not only including victims and their confidants. Right upthread, we have multiple people poo-poohing sexual assault. They're vastly more complicit than any individual victim being insufficiently heroic for your taste.

She stood up to Trump, in the end. And so did her confidants. And you should probably be doing the same with regards to her.
 
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El_Machinae said:
Let's separate between motivation and outcome. The professor and the editor who told her to clam up and walk away where trying to look out for her best interests. That their individualized responses make the aggregate worse doesn't change that their motivation was to help the victim in that incident.

It's an example where each person behaving rationally makes the aggregate worse. This happens all the time.
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No, this is BS. If we assume this sort of stuff is only half as prevalent as we think it is, then both of them must have been aware of the fact that it happens to other women, too, and by telling her to step away from it, they have actively made the decision to not take the action that would have had the potential to make the overall situation for everybody, not just the one person they care about.

If of course they somehow magically thought this is a one-time thing that otherwise never happens to anybody, sure, then they may be justified in thinking they are doing the right thing by telling the victim to stay quiet, but I seriously doubt that that's the case. They just chose to close their eyes to all the other victims, that's the obvious conclusion.

El_Machinae said:
And you should totally rewrite your[mental] list so that you're not only including victims and their confidants. Right upthread, we have multiple people poo-poohing sexual assault. They're vastly more complicit than any individual victim being insufficiently heroic for your taste.
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They don't actively contribute to the situation at all, at best they have some minor influence on how society views the situation.

It's like saying: "Don't just blame ISIS, also blame all the Muslims who think that sometimes killing for Islam might be justified, because they normalize these things and give ISIS justification to do what they do."

Just no, stick to those directly involved in the situation. Those are Trump, the targets who choose to stay quiet to gain something from it, and the people who see that it's happening and stay silent or tell victims to stay silent.
 
Valessa said:
No, this is BS. If we assume this sort of stuff is only half as prevalent as we think it is, then both of them must have been aware of the fact that it happens to other women, too, and by telling her to step away from it, they have actively made the decision to not take the action that would have had the potential to make the overall situation for everybody, not just the one person they care about.
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It's an example where each person behaving rationally makes the aggregate worse. This happens all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting that by advising Stoynoff to loudly confront Trump at the time, publicly accusing him of sexually assaulting her, that her life is guaranteed to have become better? Honestly, that's BS. Trump would have crushed her and spared no expense ruining her. He's a financial and psychological bully. He's willing to lie egregiously in order to harm someone, entirely out of spite.

You're pissed because the victim was less heroic than you would have liked. Sure. That the person with the most to lose are less brave than you'd like. Meh. We currently have people in the thread giving Trump (and people like him, by proxy) active cover despite the fact that she's now stood up to him.

"It's not really sexual assault"
"He didn't really brag about sexually assaulting"

I'm honestly done talking with you about it. Rewrite your list of those 'complicit', or don't. Up to you.
 
metalhead said:
The link provides context to what he said.
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Nope, it's just one person's unverified claim. Which also looks like it was written after the video came out, but I dunno about that.

I'm also not sure how it's not bragging about sexual assault to say that being a star means you can start kissing women and grabbing their genitals, and they won't resist? What would you call that?
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I mean if the video clip was of him saying exactly the same words, but instead he was sat on a chair in some interrogation room, lights shining in his face, tears rolling down his cheeks as he said them, I'd probably put some weight in them as being some sort of genuine admission (unless he'd been tortured of course, because we know that doesn't work). When all the indications are that he's goofing around to make some utter moron laugh... yeah, less so. And that's even ignoring the bit about "they let you do it", which I don't think you can just decide to interpret as "they're too scared to resist".

El_Machinae said:
I know you think of this as 'an unproven claim', and I am not going to argue evidence with someone with that type of attitude regarding sexual assault.
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I think it's kind of worrying that you see it as anything other than an unproven claim, given that that is objectively what it is. I'm not saying it's an implausible claim, and I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if it were true, but thankfully I'm not going to just decide it must be true because I don't like him. That's not how decent people make judgements about people, that's how lynch mobs behave, and I have more moral fibre than that.
 
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